Chords and single notes

[oblioblioblio]

I don't think theory is going to make you write better music. I also don't see why some are against learning it either though. It's just knowledge at the end of the day, there's this irrational fear of 'if I learn theory, I'm musically trapped'. that's just complete nonesense, you just aquired some knowledge not a set of rules to stick to.

i am not advocating at all to not learn theory. I just feel and have experienced that the classical method of learning theory can be pretty irrelevant, and I feel it was much more useful (for me at least) to find my own way with learning how different tones interact.

I've felt classical tonal theory was too abstracted/removed from actual personal knowledge of tonality. Resorting to a set of verbal interactions that have no relation to the mathematics of sound, or the fact that everyone understands tone deeply inside our genetic core. [Or maybe I was just exposed to too many stuffy elitist arseholes when I was younger.]

Whatever works for individual people I guess. I think there is always stuff that can be taken from anyone's theory... it's just I think it can be dangerous, and it can also be very helpful to find your own way without using anyone else's guidebook. Especially when you have totally different instruments that can play notes that people weren't using at the time, and explore texture in ways that no before could, and have all kinds of other freedom that historical musicians never had.

But, all imo, and maybe it's good to ignore me just as much as it (can be) good to ignore other things where people have said 'this is the way it is'.

[AK]

I don't think theory is going to make you write better music. I also don't see why some are against learning it either though. It's just knowledge at the end of the day, there's this irrational fear of 'if I learn theory, I'm musically trapped'. that's just complete nonesense, you just aquired some knowledge not a set of rules to stick to.

i am not advocating at all to not learn theory. I just feel and have experienced that the classical method of learning theory can be pretty irrelevant, and I feel it was much more useful (for me at least) to find my own way with learning how different tones interact.

I've felt classical tonal theory was too abstracted/removed from actual personal knowledge of tonality. Resorting to a set of verbal interactions that have no relation to the mathematics of sound, or the fact that everyone understands tone deeply inside our genetic core. [Or maybe I was just exposed to too many stuffy elitist arseholes when I was younger.]

Whatever works for individual people I guess. I think there is always stuff that can be taken from anyone's theory... it's just I think it can be dangerous, and it can also be very helpful to find your own way without using anyone else's guidebook. Especially when you have totally different instruments that can play notes that people weren't using at the time, and explore texture in ways that no before could, and have all kinds of other freedom that historical musicians never had.

But, all imo, and maybe it's good to ignore me just as much as it (can be) good to ignore other things where people have said 'this is the way it is'.

My post wasn't aimed at you, it was just a general point but clearly you have an understanding about music and know how to apply it for your creative needs. Whether you choose to adhere to theoretical 'rules' is a matter of choice but in your case, the knowledge base is there already.

I don't think you can escape learning at least some theory even as a form of musical communication and whilst it might provide a basic understanding to newcomers in things like harmony, it's not going to help them write better music imo.

I don't think classical theory has much bearing on modern music, if anybody decided they wanted to learn a bit more, they'd be better suited learning about Jazz as it has far more application for the modern era.

But for me, having a grasp on theory has no bearing on what I play or write. The only difference is that I know the name of a chord or a scale/mode, I certainly don't think, "Oh, I can't play that chord/note because it's not within the scale". It's just neither here nor there.

If I'd have been brainwashed with classical theory from a very young age, I'd have been able to see some peoples points about what a damaging thing theory could be but for the majority and self taught musicians, it's just another part of the whole package. If you sit there and learn how to use a compressor, you might later figure out a more creative way to apply that knowledge but you probably wouldn't have done unless that initial grasp of how it works wasn't there.

[tone-def]

there is a scale for just about any combination of notes that work together. so even if you ignore theory and think it's pointless your music will still fit into some kind of music theory.

[lcvl]

Learning scales and a bit of theory definitely develops your musical ear, so when it's time to produce you don't have to worry about what kind of scale or chord you're using.
You instinctively know what sounds good or not.

[oblioblioblio]

there is a scale for just about any combination of notes that work together. so even if you ignore theory and think it's pointless your music will still fit into some kind of music theory.

what about old dub/soul etc tunes on waaay out of tune pianos that sound much better than in tune ones? Or Delia Derbyshire Dr Who theme that was played on an sine wave machine for engineers? (though actually she was heavily classicaly trained so maybe that's a bad example).

I agree with what you're saying, that there are some rules that can be studied, or applied to music, even if the person making it wasn't thinking about that at the time. But it just seems kinda weird to me... i had so much more fun just trying out different notes...

But I already had a little bit of music knowledge so maybe it can be helpful to get a few pointers from classicaly theory.

I like what people are saying about just using the theory to get a head start, and using it as a guidebook to get started with finding their way. I think it can be dangerous though and referring to charts can never substitute for feeling notes yourself.

[WYRL]

I'm with Brankis on this. especially in regards to the frequency spectrum and EQ. Just put a few of your favorite tracks through lives spectrum plugin in ST mode and you'll be able to decipher the notes and chords played. Mesmerising I know but it does give you clues to the harmonic structure and weight of the music even if it sounds random.
I think after checking this out and learning one or two scales my music and sound at least is sounding more cohesive and my sound/musical intentions are realised quicker.
It's so much fun just bashing stuff out until it works I was also a bit worried this tiny bit of theory would make jamming seem contrived but this knowledge lives in your subconscious just like any other language.

[steevio]

i kind of agree with all these points one way or the other, except 'youve got to learn the rules to break them' thats the worst cliche in history, and is completely meaningless.

i made my most melodically interesting music as a self taught musician, with absolutely no knowledge of music theory whatsoever over many years in bands, so i dont agree that learning the theory trains your ears.
if you've got an ear for music, learning scales isnt going to make it much keener IMHO, and if you havent, then maybe making music isnt really for you anyway.

but strangely, when i started making techno, i began to have an interest in the theory, and have been studying it ever since, and i have to agree with AK that being armed with the knowledge will not do you any harm whatsoever, infact being armed with any knowledge surely is only a good thing.
music is mathematics, and the theory basically just explains how the physics works, if nothing else its really interesting to learn that stuff whether you decide to use it or not. its definitely useful in production.

in the end i always just use my ears anyway to make musical decisions.

[Brankis]

i think scale theory is bullshit but that's just me and in some ways it's useless to have this discussion becuase everyone just ends up defending their point of view. and every point of view will work for somebody.

I'm sure for some people it works better for their brain/ musical approach to apply someone elses theory of tonality, but for me I find that we have an inner sense of note relationships that are easliy explored by pressing combinations of different buttons or twisting knobs. Plus I find that method much more interesting and rewarding to me personally. And also I find it more valid in techno where our instruments are often completely detached from tradtional theory and it's limitations.

'you got to learn the rules to break them' to me sounds like a hand me down quote that sounds good out loud but has no actual substance to it.

I've deliberately ignored a lot of tradional theory after some bad experiences as a kid... and I have no sense of regret and feel that I achieved a good personal method for exploring tonality in my music.

no offense but this is a very immature response, im guessing you are probably a bit young

its cool to be all idealistic about art but to say "scale theory is bullshit" is a pointless statement. music theory and scales are not exactly the same thing you know. scales are beautiful beacons of solid mathematics that are a blueprint for your harmonic structure. there are a million different scales but those perfect intervals are always present and that's the magic.

how you use this is up to you and this is where i agree that classical theory is not so much important. but to ignore harmonic structure is a very amateurish way to look at it

the point being with electronic music you could write in the same key your whole life and the tracks could sound completely different because of the timbres. that's where the creative part comes in finding the interesting timbres to utilize the harmonic structure of the scale to its fullest, most blissful potential...

it is a very dangerous illusion some people have that techno is somehow any different than other "real" music... we are not that special im sorry