great new perspective..
when is a critique (OK).
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John Clees
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this is a really good topic.
i think critique of things is obviously something that is extremely important in world terms. humans analyzing information and reacting to it is obviously inherant to us, and i think that the dialogue that comes from a piece of work being critiqued is really educational for everyone involved.
If music or mixes are being made and the evoke a reaction in a person (positive or negative) then i think that there is value in that. without the negative, positive praise is essentially worthless.
i guess there is a difference between vicious criticism and constructive criticism but the line gets blurred a little. but in the right context its ok.
on a side point, in the G2 magazine in the guardian the other day there was a really interesting article about artists biting back after getting bad reviews.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/ma ... odanddrink
theres a link to it. theres some really funny ones in it.
for the record i always found it critics better than yes-men.
i think critique of things is obviously something that is extremely important in world terms. humans analyzing information and reacting to it is obviously inherant to us, and i think that the dialogue that comes from a piece of work being critiqued is really educational for everyone involved.
If music or mixes are being made and the evoke a reaction in a person (positive or negative) then i think that there is value in that. without the negative, positive praise is essentially worthless.
i guess there is a difference between vicious criticism and constructive criticism but the line gets blurred a little. but in the right context its ok.
on a side point, in the G2 magazine in the guardian the other day there was a really interesting article about artists biting back after getting bad reviews.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/ma ... odanddrink
theres a link to it. theres some really funny ones in it.
for the record i always found it critics better than yes-men.
if you're painter and you hang your art on a gallery wall, it's open for critique from anyone who views it. if you're an dj and you put a compilation out in the public domain, or you post your live set, it's open for critique from anyone who listens to it. We're performance artists, we're public, that's what it's all about. keep your music to your self it you don't want someone listening and responding to it. response is what this is about. it's why we dj. it's why we create sound.
criticism doesn't have to be asked for, it doesn't have to be qualified- we're talking about opinions here. take em, leave em, whatever- they're opinions.
the most qualified person to give you criticism is the next person that listens to your music. that looked over fact is what pisses me off about this "scene" - everyone's a somebody, everyone's in the know. HEY!!! we're supposed to be partying and having a good time here. So sick of industry know it alls. everyone's opinion in our environment is valid.
take some, leave some. don't forget- sometimes it's just a party.
criticism doesn't have to be asked for, it doesn't have to be qualified- we're talking about opinions here. take em, leave em, whatever- they're opinions.
the most qualified person to give you criticism is the next person that listens to your music. that looked over fact is what pisses me off about this "scene" - everyone's a somebody, everyone's in the know. HEY!!! we're supposed to be partying and having a good time here. So sick of industry know it alls. everyone's opinion in our environment is valid.
take some, leave some. don't forget- sometimes it's just a party.
^^^ Well said, Jenks. This is an intriquing topic, and one that definitely does go deep... I think plaster also makes a very good point - to me, that point ties back to this fundamental notion:
The real outcome of criticism depends not so much on what literally happened (the words, the delivery, etc.) but rather on what each party brings to the situation in the form of their own perceptions - both internally and externally-focused. I think this is a general truism of life. That which we call the "reality" of any given situation is never the same for each person.
And so it's not so simple to put a concept like criticism in one box or another...there is a very broad, complex, and even interdependent array of possible outcomes for each person. And the beauty of it is that each side is free to react to the entire experience as it ultimately sees fit... This is nothing less than the essence of what makes us man rather than machine.
The real outcome of criticism depends not so much on what literally happened (the words, the delivery, etc.) but rather on what each party brings to the situation in the form of their own perceptions - both internally and externally-focused. I think this is a general truism of life. That which we call the "reality" of any given situation is never the same for each person.
And so it's not so simple to put a concept like criticism in one box or another...there is a very broad, complex, and even interdependent array of possible outcomes for each person. And the beauty of it is that each side is free to react to the entire experience as it ultimately sees fit... This is nothing less than the essence of what makes us man rather than machine.
One mans sh!t is another mans gold.
When critisizing mixes, the proper way to give (in a way) a "negative" feedback (if ones wants to give a negative feedback at all) is to say that it's a good mix but not really my taste. Civilised way of talking is turning more into a debate, where one starts proving to the others that HIS Opinion is the right opinion, by rambling about technical aspects of the given material and sometimes even backing up his arguments with purely subjective interpretations.
When critisizing mixes, the proper way to give (in a way) a "negative" feedback (if ones wants to give a negative feedback at all) is to say that it's a good mix but not really my taste. Civilised way of talking is turning more into a debate, where one starts proving to the others that HIS Opinion is the right opinion, by rambling about technical aspects of the given material and sometimes even backing up his arguments with purely subjective interpretations.
ive seen quite a few kids that had potential crushed by a bad review, even if it is just one in amongst many glwing ones, fledgling talent can be thrown off track easily.
Personally i welcome constructive critisicm, in fact, i dont even care if no-one likes my music except me, its not for anyone else when im writing it! its nice that people show support though, dont get me wrong, i appreciate it when i get messages of encouragement and such.
I suppose i have just hardened myself to it these days, and im lucky enough that uncomplimentary reviews are few and far between.
i pretty much agree with mr clees, although i think if anyone really believes their critisicm is going to be useful to a developing artist, there is the PM function.
peace.
Personally i welcome constructive critisicm, in fact, i dont even care if no-one likes my music except me, its not for anyone else when im writing it! its nice that people show support though, dont get me wrong, i appreciate it when i get messages of encouragement and such.
I suppose i have just hardened myself to it these days, and im lucky enough that uncomplimentary reviews are few and far between.
i pretty much agree with mr clees, although i think if anyone really believes their critisicm is going to be useful to a developing artist, there is the PM function.
peace.
fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas.
A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
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Anyone crushed by a bad response to something they've opened up to the public domain is perhaps a little too sensitive to be walking the earth, that sucks that some people are like that, and I feel sympathy for them, but would urge them never to give up and to look at any critisism objectively using it as a basis for improvement.
Feedback on forums is sometimes the only black and white, sometimes uncoloured feedback an artist will ever get on their music, it's accepted that if someone posts a mix on a forum, that by virtue of the 'reply' box then there is an invitation to comment wether it's posted by the artist or not, otherwise htis would just be a bulletin board for posting links to mixes no ?
To outline rules on this is madness other than the common sense rule of if being bad form or rude even to simply post ' THISSS MIXXX SUXX' or similar.
I'm a little suspicious this discussion arises from crit of a mix you stickied John, far be it fro me to criticise you, but you are a moderator, this implies certain resoponsibilities.
Sorry to be a little confrontational on this, but I feel strongly that 1st up moderators should be a little impartial, and secondly, I feel that free speech is important - the more silly rules we throw up for fear of hurting feelings the less honest discussion will be (of course this must be tempered to a point - hence our faith that moderators will be fair and step in where neccesarry) !
If we all blindly say everything is great and wicked and fab, we're not really carrying much integrity as a scene.
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas.
A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
--------------------------------------------------------
Anyone crushed by a bad response to something they've opened up to the public domain is perhaps a little too sensitive to be walking the earth, that sucks that some people are like that, and I feel sympathy for them, but would urge them never to give up and to look at any critisism objectively using it as a basis for improvement.
Feedback on forums is sometimes the only black and white, sometimes uncoloured feedback an artist will ever get on their music, it's accepted that if someone posts a mix on a forum, that by virtue of the 'reply' box then there is an invitation to comment wether it's posted by the artist or not, otherwise htis would just be a bulletin board for posting links to mixes no ?
To outline rules on this is madness other than the common sense rule of if being bad form or rude even to simply post ' THISSS MIXXX SUXX' or similar.
I'm a little suspicious this discussion arises from crit of a mix you stickied John, far be it fro me to criticise you, but you are a moderator, this implies certain resoponsibilities.
Sorry to be a little confrontational on this, but I feel strongly that 1st up moderators should be a little impartial, and secondly, I feel that free speech is important - the more silly rules we throw up for fear of hurting feelings the less honest discussion will be (of course this must be tempered to a point - hence our faith that moderators will be fair and step in where neccesarry) !
If we all blindly say everything is great and wicked and fab, we're not really carrying much integrity as a scene.
