hello peepz!
i have a little question about getting the ideal volume.
for example; when i have 4 tracks, recorded on a different volume, i want to normalize them all on the same volume.
i have tried the 'normalize' option in soundforge, but there are several options concerning RMS level and Peak level, i don't quite understand them all fully.
What options do i choose or what other ways are there to get your volumes equal?
thx guys!!!
volume question
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Tom Dazing
- mnml mmbr
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:34 pm
You'll probably never be able to get tracks to be exactly the same volume, but...
Normalizing based on RMS is more likely to get them closer, because RMS is usually able to normalize close to perceived volume, which is how our brains gauge volume. Peak normalization just applies gain based on the loudest part.
Normalizing based on RMS is more likely to get them closer, because RMS is usually able to normalize close to perceived volume, which is how our brains gauge volume. Peak normalization just applies gain based on the loudest part.
the thing is...if you normalize based on RMS, and you have a track with a high RMS level, then you want another track to have the same RMS, and you "normalize it" then it will just add some gain, and it is very likely that some clipping appears, mostly in the peaks. That's why to increase RMS people use compressors and stuff...its called "mastering" 
so, i think the only practical purpose of getting all the tracks with similar RMS is if you want to put them all together in a cd (and sell it perhaps), but for other purposes you shouldn't worry much about the RMS, and just normalize in the "peak" mode (will never clip). If you are going to play those tracks in a club, you can just adjust the gain in the mixer so that they sound similar in volume.
so, i think the only practical purpose of getting all the tracks with similar RMS is if you want to put them all together in a cd (and sell it perhaps), but for other purposes you shouldn't worry much about the RMS, and just normalize in the "peak" mode (will never clip). If you are going to play those tracks in a club, you can just adjust the gain in the mixer so that they sound similar in volume.
que son esos ruiditos?
Very basic
this is how you do it with soundforge
i won't give away all mastering secrets but here is a very simple and basic one to do.
step 1: Normalise the track to 0 db (Normalising is only a fancy word for getting the track to 0 db peak value without making it clip, so in other words it just means volume)
step 2: go to the tools menu at the top and choose statistics. #rd from the bottom is a stat called rms power. For example on the one i just hit stats for it says -19.2 for the right channel and -18.9 for the left. Next you need to do a math problem to get the average rms power for both channels.
Here is the math:
r+l=db
db divided by 2
example:
-19.2 + -18.9 = 38.1
-38.1 divided by 2 = -19.05
round the total up to -19.1db
Now that you have the average you need to do one more piece of math. the standard rms power rating for digital audio is -12db to -10db
since you can not make the track louder by turning up the volume of it without making the file start clipping you need to use a limiter.
for this example we are going to use the Waves Ultramaximiser.
setting up your limiter
step 1: set the domain to analog
step 2: set the release to 10
step 3: set Quantise to 24 bit
step 4: set shaping to Ultra
step 5: set the out ceiling to -0.3 (the reason you do this is that when your cd goes into a crappy cd player they can start to clip if you don't give them the headroom)
figuring out how to set the threshold
remember we came up with an average rms rating for both channels that was -19.1db
in order to get that number to the average db of -10 to -12 you need to do this piece of math
example:
19.1 - 10 = 9.1
so that says you need to set it to -9.1db
set your threshhold to this number and press ok
So there you go. This is the most basic part of mastering and is always the last step. using this information in no way means that your master will sound good, but it will definitly be loud.
If your audio sounds like sh!t after doing this it is because you had a shitty mix down. this method only works for digital audio. If you send audio this loud and limited to a vinyl mastering place it will sound like total sh!t on a vinyl. for vinyl it is best just to normalise the file and send it to the mastering spot raw.
this is how you do it with soundforge
i won't give away all mastering secrets but here is a very simple and basic one to do.
step 1: Normalise the track to 0 db (Normalising is only a fancy word for getting the track to 0 db peak value without making it clip, so in other words it just means volume)
step 2: go to the tools menu at the top and choose statistics. #rd from the bottom is a stat called rms power. For example on the one i just hit stats for it says -19.2 for the right channel and -18.9 for the left. Next you need to do a math problem to get the average rms power for both channels.
Here is the math:
r+l=db
db divided by 2
example:
-19.2 + -18.9 = 38.1
-38.1 divided by 2 = -19.05
round the total up to -19.1db
Now that you have the average you need to do one more piece of math. the standard rms power rating for digital audio is -12db to -10db
since you can not make the track louder by turning up the volume of it without making the file start clipping you need to use a limiter.
for this example we are going to use the Waves Ultramaximiser.
setting up your limiter
step 1: set the domain to analog
step 2: set the release to 10
step 3: set Quantise to 24 bit
step 4: set shaping to Ultra
step 5: set the out ceiling to -0.3 (the reason you do this is that when your cd goes into a crappy cd player they can start to clip if you don't give them the headroom)
figuring out how to set the threshold
remember we came up with an average rms rating for both channels that was -19.1db
in order to get that number to the average db of -10 to -12 you need to do this piece of math
example:
19.1 - 10 = 9.1
so that says you need to set it to -9.1db
set your threshhold to this number and press ok
So there you go. This is the most basic part of mastering and is always the last step. using this information in no way means that your master will sound good, but it will definitly be loud.
If your audio sounds like sh!t after doing this it is because you had a shitty mix down. this method only works for digital audio. If you send audio this loud and limited to a vinyl mastering place it will sound like total sh!t on a vinyl. for vinyl it is best just to normalise the file and send it to the mastering spot raw.
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Tom Dazing
- mnml mmbr
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:34 pm
i have tried the RMS option and that seems to work perfectly, all the tracks seem to have the same volume without clipping,
using Peak levels wouldn't have been such a good choice in this case since the peaks of one do not have the same power as the peaks of a second one.
btw thank you torque, you make me understand the dark, ancient and mystic art of mastering.
i just need to get some tracks to the real masterstudios, so they'll handle it from there..
thx guys
using Peak levels wouldn't have been such a good choice in this case since the peaks of one do not have the same power as the peaks of a second one.
btw thank you torque, you make me understand the dark, ancient and mystic art of mastering.
i just need to get some tracks to the real masterstudios, so they'll handle it from there..
thx guys
but hey, it shouldn't be a problem as long as you keep below -0,3db, and watch out with the bass and that it doesn't get too flattened out etc...Torque wrote:If you send audio this loud and limited to a vinyl mastering place it will sound like total sht on a vinyl. for vinyl it is best just to normalise the file and send it to the mastering spot raw.
because I've used the method you described for my pressed (vinyl) stuff and I never had any problems? or maybe I have, but I haven't noticed it atleast
... but sure, it depends on if there's going to be any mastering (worth mentioning) before the pressing - but usually (for smaller labels atleast) there isn't... maybe just a little adjusting by the people at the pressing-plant.here's another tip just incase your ears aren't trained yet:
Once you've mixed it down and brought it up to standard rms loudness play the track and watch the VU meter and how it acts. The VU meter should be jumping from at least -9db to 0db or even more dramaticly. If it's not jumping at least that far then you have killed the dynamics because your mixdown or eq is bad. Use this to train your ears. After a while it will start to come natural.
Once you've mixed it down and brought it up to standard rms loudness play the track and watch the VU meter and how it acts. The VU meter should be jumping from at least -9db to 0db or even more dramaticly. If it's not jumping at least that far then you have killed the dynamics because your mixdown or eq is bad. Use this to train your ears. After a while it will start to come natural.