Is Minus becoming the Get Physical of minimal?

[ri]

Sorry. I don't want to jump on you on this one, but no.

And I'm sorry but Robert Hood, for exemple, has always been way bigger in the Tresor back in the days.

Sorry, this english is a bit strange. Do you mean at Tresor the club Hood was bigger? Sure I'd accept that, Surgeon, Ruskin, Pacou etc. were all probably bigger for sure. Tho it looked like Hawtin got pride of place in the closing party
However Tresor is a tiny tiny corner of the global techno market - and has been since the mid-late 90s, even tho it is an important chapter in techno histroy.

But it's true, some djs were not as exposed. Which doesn't mean IMO that Hawtin is anyway better or whatever than them.

Nobody is debating skills or talent, as I've said many times in my post, we all have djs we'd put above hawtin, I doubt a single person here would put Hawtin at the top of their list, we all have our developed and specific taste.

And I'm really sorry again, but you cannot be serious when saying that the M series or Hard Wax crew or whoever else have anything to reward to Hawtin.

Not only am I not serious about that, but I didn't even say it!!!
Read my post. I said that moritz's empire is more mainstream than any other part of the minimal spectrum if you talk about it from levels of sales and the placement in the global dance community's boxes. Their efforts in techno dub and minimal electronica have probably penetrated more record crates than any other group.

And I'll say it again - Hawtin is responsible for selling other people's records, making record labels and artists, breaking new things. It's a fact. We all see it. "Hawtin played it" suddenly the record sales go thru the roof. It happens with other artists to a degree, but like Jeff Mills in the past, there's certain artists that young etc. djs pay a LOT of attention to when they are hunting around for records. Not everyone has the luxury of having the time to listen to every record, which is why dj charts and playlists are very important for the scene. ESPECIALLY those djs who don't post charts, so when someone hears that dj blah blah is dropping something, then it feels like a inside scoop - however when Hawtin does it, there's a lot of focus. I can imagine that the sales of the records put on his new mixmag cd went up quite a bit.

[lil' jerk]

i feel stupid having read this thread... also, i hate you all, and don't care about anything you say to me in return... some people's posts were as stupid and pointless as this one is right here, like "isa" basically saying nothing all the time, and all you mindless idiots that agree and herald every useless empty post as canon. this goes for every thread as well, this is just the tip. so fuckyou all. i award you no points and may god have mercy on your souls.

[theclockstrucktwelve]

Hahahaha.


This whole thing is hysterical. People talking like they know their sh!t, and with attempted authority too. Bottom line - is there a point to all this "hawtin bashing" ? Can it even be called that? Because the slang term "bashing" usually suggests that there's something there to make fun of though..

Fact is, whether it bothers you or not, Hawtin has always been a true innovator with real specific vision. He's been the first to do a lot of things, and call it coincidence, but every time that techno land starts developing new trends and sounds and things... it usually follows something he's done.

For most of you (notice I said most, not all): I don't understand how you can sit there typing away about how or why you think what he does/has done isn't good/whatever... aside from the obvious fact that you're wrong, he's been doing this thing about 15 more years than you've known what "techno" even was. I'm not saying you have to like anything he does but some of the things being said around here are absurd.

All the commentary about "Oh, there's better DJs out there", this and that - aside from being pointless, I don't know how you figure.. by what methods do you measure? and in what way is someone "better" ? (rhetorical)

He's constantly pushed the envelope and been the leader in at least a couple major eras in this techno thing. His skills are impeccable and final-f'n'ly... he's not just a "record player".. he's one of the first to actually do exciting things that turned DJing into performance in the techno scene (don't get confused and angry thinking i'm discounting the historical roll of hip hop, turntablism, etc.. I'm talking about a different sort of thing here). And to the post about not many people putting him in their top DJ lists... I don't know why the hell you'd say that because he should be right up there near the top... but of course, everyone has preferences... (for example, it's often people who like more housey or 'musical', less technoey and not minimal kinda stuff)

Let me get to a point here. Fact is, he and his label and people have garnered a lot of attention and respect over the years. This isn't american television and MTV... it's not a hype and marketing thing..this was something underground that was built from scratch and has really become something amazing. He/they are not the only ones out there doing amazing things, and no fan or supporter has even suggested such a thing. But they are definitely a big important piece of the pie here and it's ignorant to suggest otherwise. He's contributed HUGE to the scene and there's a reason he's got a lot of eager fans.

So, stop this pointless argueing and bickering and jealousy and whatever words would be appropriate to throw in here and show some respect. Things would be different in a very bad way if they weren't around, and they've earned it. We've every right to criticize things/music/whatever, it's an important part of existance in today's world. But there's a difference between that and this silly business that's been going on. I'm not trying to drop a "PLUR" sign here... don't misread me. And I don't "worship" them or anything... I just love the music, love the scene and i've been into it all too long to see some people come along and try and say the what's what, all uneducated like. I'd speak defensively for anyone who's contributed as much as these guys have... not that they need it..

[Thomas D and Jack Thomas]

[idealstandard]

And I'll say it again - Hawtin is responsible for selling other people's records, making record labels and artists, breaking new things. It's a fact. We all see it. "Hawtin played it" suddenly the record sales go thru the roof. It happens with other artists to a degree, but like Jeff Mills in the past, there's certain artists that young etc. djs pay a LOT of attention to when they are hunting around for records. Not everyone has the luxury of having the time to listen to every record, which is why dj charts and playlists are very important for the scene. ESPECIALLY those djs who don't post charts, so when someone hears that dj blah blah is dropping something, then it feels like a inside scoop - however when Hawtin does it, there's a lot of focus. I can imagine that the sales of the records put on his new mixmag cd went up quite a bit.

Get your point on this one, alright. It's just that I thought that you summarize the whole "techno" history to Hawtin which would be wrong, but I see you don't, so sorry mate ;-)

[idealstandard]

Hahahaha.

This whole thing is hysterical. People talking like they know their sht, and with attempted authority too. Bottom line - is there a point to all this "hawtin bashing" ? Can it even be called that? Because the slang term "bashing" usually suggests that there's something there to make fun of though...

I don't see no bashing, sorry if I gave you that impression. Take it easy, mate.

He/they are not the only ones out there doing amazing things, and no fan or supporter has even suggested such a thing.

That's my problem, I've sometimes the impression everything is resumed to him or them, as you say, and that the idea "you" have of this whole minimal thing resumes itself to "Him" (capital H) and "Them".
To put it in other word, I guess it could be time on this board that everybody explains what they're thinking when saying "mnml".

So, stop this pointless argueing and bickering and jealousy and whatever words would be appropriate to throw in here and show some respect. Things would be different in a very bad way if they weren't around, and they've earned it.

Where I live, things didn't change with m_nus, sorry.

To quote Mr Jay Haze on another topic:

the techno world does not start or end with rich hawtin, rich hawtin just like everyone else got his influence from an outside source, and if you are educated on music from the 80`´s and 90´s you can clearly see the path that drove him to do the music he did. it was not mystical-it was not magic-but, it was conceptual.

[idealstandard]

i feel stupid having read this thread

Go listen to digweed?

[ri]

the techno world does not start or end with rich hawtin, rich hawtin just like everyone else got his influence from an outside source, and if you are educated on music from the 80`´s and 90´s you can clearly see the path that drove him to do the music he did. it was not mystical-it was not magic-but, it was conceptual.

Yes, hindsight is 20/20 isn't it.

Would that we all had such conceptual expertise and skill at turning our influences into such visions