Paying netlabels?

[jorgeds]

I think that isabella has a very good point here... as a net label artist, my favourite reward is worldwide people feedback.

as ali khan said... we get payed for our gigs, and we get more and better gigs if more people know about us.
and if you don´t like to play live as dj or performer, get another job... ´cause it´s almost imposible to be able to get enough money to pay your bills from only making music, even if we charge for net label downloads.

Sure, I thank God that my first release was on a netlabel, everybody could have it at home in just a couple of clicks... I think there always will be people who want to release free music, and if the artists agree about that... why should it stop?... as Barem said, it's almost impossible to live out just making music, and this is an awesome way to promote.

Best,
George

[steevio]

Come on people,
what is wrong with the middle way.?? why is everyone so aggressively polarised ??
you cant say all music should be free, or music should never be free. Open your minds. It's totally cool being able to have your music beamed round the world in an instant, but it's also cool to be able to live from what you were designed for.
To say that its impossible to make a living from music is naive, just ask Richie Hawtin.
The problem is that only a few people make alot of money instead of it being shared out equally, and that is because of the bullshit music business !! ( I'm referring to the wider commercial pop music industry here)
With the internet we have the chance to change all that, we have the chance to be payed directly for our efforts, by cutting out all the middlemen. Dont get me wrong, this doesnt refer to people who facilitate the scene by providing a good service, only the leeches.
This is a perfect time for all underground musicians to be fully appreciated.
Here is just one example of why i feel this way. Since our free net-label was posted on here two weeks ago, we have had hundreds of downloads from the links on this site, and do you know how many feedback responses we've had on the mindtours site - ZERO !!! and howmany on mnml.nl, 1 !! and that was after the artist pleaded for some feedback.
If you think thats because the music is sh!t, then the thousands of people who have bought our vinyl would probably dissagree.
If this is how our artists are thanked for giving their music away for free, then i'm afraid the free-net label concept is already dead !

[::: b a r e m :::]

To say that its impossible to make a living from music is naive, just ask Richie Hawtin.

I don´t think that he lives out with the money of his labels... why would he play 3 or 4 gigs every week, then?

then the thousands of people who have bought our vinyl would probably dissagree.
If this is how our artists are thanked for giving their music away for free, then i'm afraid the free-net label concept is already dead !

so you gave for free a release that thousands of people bought? that´s weird. And if it was a different release, maybe it isn´t as good as the vinyl. You cannot force people to give you feedback... it just happens or not.

The middle way won´t work until someone like beatport invites net labels to join them, but even in that case, I preffer someone from a third world country who gets 20 or 50 bucks for a gig to be able to play my tracks for free.
I trust net labels, new artists, and I think that the free net label concept is far from being dead.

[dsat]

isabella

pls don't just take my words out of context
it's a bit insulting...

if you go back to what i've written, you'll find that i said that music shouldn't be free unless it's for promotional purposes... and that's what netlabels are for in my opinion

and believe me, i know a lot of people who use the excuse of not having money to just take things for free, i just think it's not a reason to assume that you're entitled to free music or free whatever just because you can't cut it financially, i was unemployed for long time, i simply adapted my lifestyle to what was financially possible...
and the idea that i'm selfish because i think that way is also insulting, i think that way, because i know people like that

i know a forum is an easy way to insult people... still some respect would be nice now and then, i'm entitled to have an opinion as well ye know, without having to deal with simplistic replies

i do believe that music has become too expensive and this pisses of a lot of people, i just wonder if people would buy more music if sales prices would drop or if they would simply find some other excuse to download for free

anyway, my ideas are clear about the matter

[steevio]

In response to Barem, you misunderstood me, i was just pointing out that our label is already established and we have a steady clientelle who buy our vinyl, so the quality of the music is generally already acceptable. I had already mentioned in a previous post that the quality control of what goes on vinyl and net-label is identical.
i know that i cant make people give us feedback, that wasnt my point, but i do find it hard to take that we give music away for free, and the people who download it havent got the decency to leave a comment whether negative or positive, surely that is the least that we should expect for our efforts.
The middle-way i was referring to, was that there is room for both free net-labels, and pay-for ones, which i already pointed out in my previous posts. Freedom of choice ! We also sell mp3's on Kompakt
Remember, I'm running a free net-label, I'm not argueing against them, my question is how long will my artists provide tunes if they get no feedback ?
My comment about richie Hawtin, was to illustrate the fact that it is possible to make a living out of this style of music, i didnt say it was posssible to make a living from releases alone, as an underground musician, i am grateful for any money i make in any way, and every little bit helps.
I agree with you in that i trust net-labels, new artsists etc, and my flippant comment about the net-label concept being dead, was merely to illustrate the depth of feeling of dissatisfaction felt by my artists and myself at the lack of respect shown by downloaders.
i realise now after two weeks of posting on my first ever forum, that i have to make myself more clear. Maybe i should stick to making music.

[isa]

Ok, I'm gonna answer all in one...

but it's also cool to be able to live from what you were designed for.

Well my friend unfortunetly in this world artists gotta have more talents than just making music. Because there's already a lot of people who CAN make music.

To say that its impossible to make a living from music is naive, just ask Richie Hawtin.

The point is not about whether you can make or not a living from music, the point is that if your purpose is making a living from record selling you are also being part of the music industry "middlemen"

The problem is that only a few people make alot of money instead of it being shared out equally, and that is because of the bullshit music business !!

It's the same you are trying to do, just think about it and realize. In a smaller scale but it's the same.
For the time that the music remains as a business there will always be that problem.

With the internet we have the chance to change all that, we have the chance to be payed directly for our efforts, by cutting out all the middlemen.

Ohh really? How are you going to change it? Doing the same?
There's always going to be middlemen when you go through a process of creating and selling a product.

isabella

pls don't just take my words out of context
it's a bit insulting...

I am sorry for that, it's not my purpose to offend you or insult you

if you go back to what i've written, you'll find that i said that music shouldn't be free unless it's for promotional purposes...

What's the difference between a promotional copy of a record and a sold record? MONEY, but the promotion is the same. Probably more with a promo copy or a free copy.
With internet artists can get to a lot of people they couldn't even imagine before with regular distribution. Now someone from (let's say) singapore can listen to their tracks, when before it was not possible. Isn't that a reward?

i do believe that music has become too expensive and this pisses of a lot of people, i just wonder if people would buy more music if sales prices would drop or if they would simply find some other excuse to download for free

People don't need to buy records. It's old fashioned, not environment friendly and it makes no sense
That's what the artists and the music industry have to realize. Things change.

I don't want to have a very expensive big media (example: vinyl or cd) that contains very little music when I can have small media (example: hard drive, digital player) containing a lot of music cheaper or for free.

An artist is creating music in a computer, why in the world would you want to go through all that process of creating a product people don't need and it's completely obsolete?
To create and sell unneeded necesities like big companies do?
Do you want to be part of that huge consume process with art? I wouldn't want to...

BTW: Just because people buy a release on vinyl doesn't mean it's a good product or music, it's just fast buying (consuming) or marketing strategy.
Stupid example, I know, but Jennifer lopez has sold millions of records and that doesn't make the music GOOD.

i realise now after two weeks of posting on my first ever forum, that i have to make myself more clear. Maybe i should stick to making music.

It happens to me a lot, so don't even bother for the missunderstanding
It happens very often, specially on written discussions.

And please don't take my comments personal.
We are all trying to have a nice discussion here and I am not pointing at anyone, I am pointing at ways of thinking. Ideas, not people.
PS: I am not on fire, mad or against anyone.

[steevio]

in response to isabella,
i respect alot of what you say, but you dont know me, or my history, if you did you would know that i have long been a campaigner for change in the way music is distributed, and for a fair deal for the real musicians whose music is swamped by the corruptions of the commercial music industry, so asking me to realize that i'm just a smaller part of the same cancer, is a bit hard for me to take. I spent nearly ten years distributing my own record labels and the labels of our friends in order to cut out the middleman, driving around with the records in a car, making strong contacts with shops, and in the process i made many friends and was part of a whole underground movement. It has been my life since i started making electronic music in 1983. We run our business as a non-profit making collective, we help new artists get a break, and help them to go on to set up their own labels.
We do it because we love it , and i'm sure you do to.

[pheek]

Ok, I'm gonna answer all in one...

but it's also cool to be able to live from what you were designed for.

Well my friend unfortunetly in this world artists gotta have more talents than just making music. Because there's already a lot of people who CAN make music.

This is the most discouraging thing I have read in a while.