Paypal is definately the easiest way to go for the label and the artists.
The only reason I don't like paypal is that I dont want to add money to my pp account from my real bank account because I dont want to tie up money. When I do purchase something using paypal it takes about 5 or 6 days to process because it takes the money from my bank account which takes time to process.
So really my reasons are personal and I would still use paypal if I had too.
Paying netlabels?
I know what you mean, I had some complications once because of that.gillsans wrote:Paypal is definately the easiest way to go for the label and the artists.
The only reason I don't like paypal is that I dont want to add money to my pp account from my real bank account because I dont want to tie up money. When I do purchase something using paypal it takes about 5 or 6 days to process because it takes the money from my bank account which takes time to process.
So really my reasons are personal and I would still use paypal if I had too.
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DJ L'embrouille
- mnml maxi
- Posts: 1509
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:52 pm
- Location: Loperhet
- Contact:
Well, after some topics, the complexity of this problem is clear : in one side, we can find people interested in netlabel concept for ideal (free culture, no money engaged) or for lack of money, and on the other side artists who want to receive a little contribution to their passion, the time spent doing it and the investment for music tools. Both sides are totally respectable. Perhaps that the goal is to make the two situations converged.
I immediatly love the netlabel concept, cause it’s defined in a free way (i don’t want to make money my way of life) and in a will of sharing. More, the quality of the poduction are now almost very good. If i have to pay for it, i will be disappointed. Anyway, if it’s the only condition to profit from a better quality and more artists, then i will pay. To my opinion, the cost must be cheap. I agree to pay for production costs not for making a netlabel artist a rich man (though i’m aware that we are far from this opportunity today). The way of paying must be suitable : I agree to pay an annual amount (which i can compare to a donation & support, by paypal or other way) but not for each release (which i compare to daily spends). To conclude, some questions/suggestions :
- what about not free songs played on a net radio with top quality i would record ? is it legal to have it and play it?
- is it viable to define a period during which the tracks are not free and afterwards (one year or more), they’ll become free (or a threshold by track)?
- will the collected money only be used for music production or more (promoting another arts, events, solidarity...)? (if only you will receive much !).
In anyway, this movement must be supported. It has for me an enormous potential of development and gives us ideal way of getting very good sound. If it’s necessary that I pay to guarantee its development, so i’ll do it (as far as I can).
I immediatly love the netlabel concept, cause it’s defined in a free way (i don’t want to make money my way of life) and in a will of sharing. More, the quality of the poduction are now almost very good. If i have to pay for it, i will be disappointed. Anyway, if it’s the only condition to profit from a better quality and more artists, then i will pay. To my opinion, the cost must be cheap. I agree to pay for production costs not for making a netlabel artist a rich man (though i’m aware that we are far from this opportunity today). The way of paying must be suitable : I agree to pay an annual amount (which i can compare to a donation & support, by paypal or other way) but not for each release (which i compare to daily spends). To conclude, some questions/suggestions :
- what about not free songs played on a net radio with top quality i would record ? is it legal to have it and play it?
- is it viable to define a period during which the tracks are not free and afterwards (one year or more), they’ll become free (or a threshold by track)?
- will the collected money only be used for music production or more (promoting another arts, events, solidarity...)? (if only you will receive much !).
In anyway, this movement must be supported. It has for me an enormous potential of development and gives us ideal way of getting very good sound. If it’s necessary that I pay to guarantee its development, so i’ll do it (as far as I can).
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::: b a r e m :::
- mnml newbie
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:25 am
- Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Well, here we have a very interesting issue, i think.
I can tell by my own experience that free net label concept is great! I mean, it helped me a lot to grow up and to be known out there. Also I know about many other new artists that have offers to release on big vinyl labels because of their previous work in net labels.
As you all know, you have to pay a lot for a vinyl production if you are the owner of a label... it´s risky, and I think that if new artist as I am have the oportunity to do so on this days, is because our net releases worked as beta testers of our sounds. The feedback of the people in forums helps a lot to low down that risk, and if it´s free, more people listen to it and more people give their opinion.
By the other hand, net label owners don´t need to pay for anything, just for their time, and I think that they do the same as we new artists do... use our time to show our work, to grow up and to be known for free.
I never wanted money from netlabels, I think it´s all about helping each other, and it´s great!
And yes... beatport or itunes are too expensive... I´m totally against that. Now almost every vinyl label is a net label that charges for downloads too, so there must be less difference between free releases and payed releases as they both do not need to be pressed or distributed worldwide by plane or whatever.
By the way, the owners of small vinyl labels pay for a production that in most cases doesn´t give a lot of money, just to pay for that and some money for the artists... so if you want to live of making music, you have to do it by performing live, i guess and use your releases just as promotion. I also got gigs because of my net releases, so in a way, I got payed for my work
btw: If you´re a dj that get well payed for your work, release on net labels or donate, that´s fair!
I can tell by my own experience that free net label concept is great! I mean, it helped me a lot to grow up and to be known out there. Also I know about many other new artists that have offers to release on big vinyl labels because of their previous work in net labels.
As you all know, you have to pay a lot for a vinyl production if you are the owner of a label... it´s risky, and I think that if new artist as I am have the oportunity to do so on this days, is because our net releases worked as beta testers of our sounds. The feedback of the people in forums helps a lot to low down that risk, and if it´s free, more people listen to it and more people give their opinion.
By the other hand, net label owners don´t need to pay for anything, just for their time, and I think that they do the same as we new artists do... use our time to show our work, to grow up and to be known for free.
I never wanted money from netlabels, I think it´s all about helping each other, and it´s great!
And yes... beatport or itunes are too expensive... I´m totally against that. Now almost every vinyl label is a net label that charges for downloads too, so there must be less difference between free releases and payed releases as they both do not need to be pressed or distributed worldwide by plane or whatever.
By the way, the owners of small vinyl labels pay for a production that in most cases doesn´t give a lot of money, just to pay for that and some money for the artists... so if you want to live of making music, you have to do it by performing live, i guess and use your releases just as promotion. I also got gigs because of my net releases, so in a way, I got payed for my work
btw: If you´re a dj that get well payed for your work, release on net labels or donate, that´s fair!
paying net-labels
Ok i'm a newbie to forums in general, so excuse me if my etiquette is incorrect, but i thought i should give my input to this issue, as i run a vinyl and a free net-label, and i'd like to illustrate how every situation is different, and it is dangerous to generalise.
First of all i have to say that it is wrong to generalise and say that the quality of free net releases is worse than 'proper' labels.
In our case, the situation is much more complex than this. Let me give you a brief background. Our label Mindtours has been releasing vinyl for 5 years now, and we have always given prefrence to new producers who we think deserve to have their music heard. we dont use established artist remixes to increase sales. Consequently we rarely make any money from vinyl, as it is a very expensive process. When the first free net-labels began to spring up, i was sceptical, and at first i saw it as a threat. I regard myself as a musician, it's not a part time hobby, and i also have to pay rent and bills etc. Giving music away for free, seemed illogical and suicidal. However, one of our young upcoming artists Leif, released some tunes on Textone, and i noticed that it increased hits on our site quite substantially.
Many of our artists were writing tunes at a rate much higher than we could release them on vinyl, even though we are being distributed by Kompakt. We simply cannot afford to release at the rate of bigger labels, so all of us have tunes to spare, and we tend to release the material which is more dancefloor friendly. Basically we have all built a backlog of tunes which are lurking in dark corners of our harddrives, the quality of these tunes is no less than those released on vinyl. We dont specifically write tunes for free net-labels, we just write tunes !
Our net-label was set up to give people access to this otherwise unheard material, and to propagate interest in our collective in general, which has spin-offs in more offers of gigs, offers of remix work, and interest from other labels in our artists.
Our hit count has more than doubled since we started our net-label in October 2005, and interest from outside parties actual lead me to this forum.
We believe that networking is the answer to our long term success, and that we have to go with the flow in this ever changing environment, so it just felt right to start the net-label at this time.
OK so i have avoided the real question, should we all start charging for our mp3 downloads. I think there is definitely a place for free downloads, and we are committed now to providing that service, but we also have to make a living, and vinyl is not the answer, it is a promotional tool at best for non-commercial music
labels. So it seems inevitable that we will somehow have to make money from mp3 sales in the future, maybe we can have a free download label and a pay-for one. This doesnt necessarily mean the quality has to be any different. The free label can be a taster for a more diverse pay-for label, and provide a service to people who simply cannot afford to pay.
We consider our label as a non-profit making, organically growing collective of artists, helping each other to scrape a living out of music, any help we receive in the form of payment for the time and energy we put in, is gratefully accepted.
As a footnote I'd like to say that we chose two of our 'most downloaded' tunes from our free netlabel, as two of the tracks on our next vinyl release, so it's also a market research tool as someone else pointed out.
First of all i have to say that it is wrong to generalise and say that the quality of free net releases is worse than 'proper' labels.
In our case, the situation is much more complex than this. Let me give you a brief background. Our label Mindtours has been releasing vinyl for 5 years now, and we have always given prefrence to new producers who we think deserve to have their music heard. we dont use established artist remixes to increase sales. Consequently we rarely make any money from vinyl, as it is a very expensive process. When the first free net-labels began to spring up, i was sceptical, and at first i saw it as a threat. I regard myself as a musician, it's not a part time hobby, and i also have to pay rent and bills etc. Giving music away for free, seemed illogical and suicidal. However, one of our young upcoming artists Leif, released some tunes on Textone, and i noticed that it increased hits on our site quite substantially.
Many of our artists were writing tunes at a rate much higher than we could release them on vinyl, even though we are being distributed by Kompakt. We simply cannot afford to release at the rate of bigger labels, so all of us have tunes to spare, and we tend to release the material which is more dancefloor friendly. Basically we have all built a backlog of tunes which are lurking in dark corners of our harddrives, the quality of these tunes is no less than those released on vinyl. We dont specifically write tunes for free net-labels, we just write tunes !
Our net-label was set up to give people access to this otherwise unheard material, and to propagate interest in our collective in general, which has spin-offs in more offers of gigs, offers of remix work, and interest from other labels in our artists.
Our hit count has more than doubled since we started our net-label in October 2005, and interest from outside parties actual lead me to this forum.
We believe that networking is the answer to our long term success, and that we have to go with the flow in this ever changing environment, so it just felt right to start the net-label at this time.
OK so i have avoided the real question, should we all start charging for our mp3 downloads. I think there is definitely a place for free downloads, and we are committed now to providing that service, but we also have to make a living, and vinyl is not the answer, it is a promotional tool at best for non-commercial music
labels. So it seems inevitable that we will somehow have to make money from mp3 sales in the future, maybe we can have a free download label and a pay-for one. This doesnt necessarily mean the quality has to be any different. The free label can be a taster for a more diverse pay-for label, and provide a service to people who simply cannot afford to pay. We consider our label as a non-profit making, organically growing collective of artists, helping each other to scrape a living out of music, any help we receive in the form of payment for the time and energy we put in, is gratefully accepted.
As a footnote I'd like to say that we chose two of our 'most downloaded' tunes from our free netlabel, as two of the tracks on our next vinyl release, so it's also a market research tool as someone else pointed out.
Thanks Steevio for your input, I share your view about it. The more I think of it, the more I recall the good old mp3.com as the perfect solution for what now are netlabels. You could listen to music, either download or stream. Then you could buy stuff you like or pay for a so called record. I think it was brilliant and was meant for a lot of success but it came all wrong when they were bought (by Sony? what a surprise they wanted to dismantle it).
If 2005 was, to me, the year where we saw the most number of Netlabels appear, it was also the year where all the people I know who were followers of that trend stop being into it. Too many labels and unfortunaly, since everyone started their own, it just became impossible to keep up.
Believe it or not, a lot of people I know feel that if they would pay for it, they would probably give more time listening to the music I would take it with a bit more seriousness.
2006 will be the year where we will see more netlabels who sell their music. It can't really harm anyone, just support artists and I believe its ok like that. I wish there would be another mp3.com equivalent happening, but for netlabels, as a huge network and such. It would have a lot of potential.
oh and hmm.. I hope we'll see less netlabels appearing, and I reckon we should join forces instead. Sometimes I feel some new netlabels owners have a huge lack of ethics...
p.
ps. Archipel will not sell their releases for now.
pps. To anyone who started rumors that my label was dead, you were wrong
If 2005 was, to me, the year where we saw the most number of Netlabels appear, it was also the year where all the people I know who were followers of that trend stop being into it. Too many labels and unfortunaly, since everyone started their own, it just became impossible to keep up.
Believe it or not, a lot of people I know feel that if they would pay for it, they would probably give more time listening to the music I would take it with a bit more seriousness.
2006 will be the year where we will see more netlabels who sell their music. It can't really harm anyone, just support artists and I believe its ok like that. I wish there would be another mp3.com equivalent happening, but for netlabels, as a huge network and such. It would have a lot of potential.
oh and hmm.. I hope we'll see less netlabels appearing, and I reckon we should join forces instead. Sometimes I feel some new netlabels owners have a huge lack of ethics...
p.
ps. Archipel will not sell their releases for now.
pps. To anyone who started rumors that my label was dead, you were wrong
@copid: i disagree. i think (especially when talking about minimal music) a lot of netlabel can provide a good quality of music such as kompakt... listen to ppheek, alli khan, kazooo, igor vlasov or v.rotz.. teir stuff is just great.. and i guess if kompakt would know about them that they would also release stuff on vinyl...
but i think that hnetlabel should offer their music for free.. i mean: ita all about the money on this planet.. and there are a lot of people who dont have money.. but the need of good music.. i think they should stay for free!
free music for free minds!
but i think that hnetlabel should offer their music for free.. i mean: ita all about the money on this planet.. and there are a lot of people who dont have money.. but the need of good music.. i think they should stay for free!
free music for free minds!