help me first gear to buy

[Hades]

and about the controlling thing with knobs/sliders.
if you carefully select the right controllers, you've got quite some power directly at hand, and having to push some extra shift or select buttons to have your set of knobs control other parameters (like with your APC40) really isn't that hard to do when you think it through a bit and set it up right.

the andromeda.
it was on my wanted list for many many years, and I finally decided to get one when I thought they stopped making them.
I could be wrong about this (there was a time I was posting tons on vintagesynth, but I'm hardly on any forum any more these days) and I never looked it up, but I have the impression that they finally stopped making them (it's not on the alesis US (or was it EU ?) site anymore), so I figured before used prices went up, I'd better get one.

anyway, I've had mine from october and absolutely loved it.
the dual filters (and how flexible you can route them), the way you can put a sine post filter and have ring modulation post and pre filter. (this is fucking awesome for your harmonics and fundamental !!)
the tracking generator, all the selectable envelope slopes (you really don't find that enough on analog synths), the HUGE modulation options.
plus the fact that it's a bliss to play with.
I've been playing piano for over 20 years now, so I'm always a bit sceptic about synth keyboards (although I realize that synth action is great for some stuff, I prefer semi-weighted or fully weighted whenever possible), but the andromeda is great to play on, plus it comes with all these easy extra's, like your chord function, or the way your transpose works,
and a ribbon controller.

plus I LOVE the story behind this thing as well.
Dave bryce, the guy that was on the design team back then and works with Dave Smith (the inventer of MIDI, still version 1.1) nowadays, hangs out at vintagesynth from time to time, and talked about this a lot.
the really had to fight for many many months to get this thing finished, cause back then digital romplers were controlling everything, and no marketing guy thought they'd ever sell more than a couple dozen pieces.
but anyways, you shouldn't buy a synth for that reason obviously, but it does put an extra smile on my face when I think about this...


I'm glad I didn't get this synth years ago cause back then I'm quite sure I'd get frustrated by it, but nowadays, I'm very very very happy with it.
did you check out the "tips & tricks" manual ?
there's a lot of good stuff in there as well, if you get frustrated by it at times.

but I sure wouldn't advise anyone newbie to get the andromeda.
too complicated. too many options.

to me, I've always found the andromeda VERY intuitive to program (and I'm far from an expert, but after owning and programming hardware synths from all kinds of manufacturers with all kinds of different interfaces over the years, I do think I can judge an interface from experience.
but interfaces are a personal thing as well, so... )

but if it's any comfort, it seems the andromeda gets bought and sold a lot.
the people that keep it, can't stop raving about it (my apologies)
and the others never really connected with it, I guess.
what did you dislike about it ?
I'm curious to know.
and what other gear would you prefer to the andromeda ?

btw, anyone who bothered to check out your tracks and knows a bit about sound design, would know you could handle an andromeda steevio.
nice tracks !

[Hades]

you might wanna skip the sub.
I'm not sure why people are so keen on getting subs.
if you get a good pair of monitors, you shouldn't need a sub in my opinion.

the reason i mentioned a sub was because the monitors that xteck was talking about don't have very good bass response. i agree that if you have decent monitors you don't need a sub but with things like the adam A5's you will need a sub.

most people don't listen to your stuff on a system that has a sub, so if you mix things down on a sub, it will probably sound like it's lacking some bass on normal systems that don't have a sub.

the same thing can be said about treble. why do you need all that detail in the top end when you can't hear it on a normal system.

i don't know about you but most of us around here make club music which is played on big bass heavy systems. you have a sub so you can get an idea of what it sounds like on a club system and you don't need to use it all the time. just a quick reference here and there.

I'll agree there.
If you use it for reference at times then sure.
I just think a lot of newbies that get a sub will more than likely be putting this on all the time, and then I don't think it's a good idea to have a sub.

but as anything, this is just my opinion.

[Hades]

what i ask me now is, how to hear correct.
I mean we all have our own opinion on sound and own understanding.
You guys know what i mean?

How do i choose the right music for testing stuff like this.
Is there a way to train the ears or the listening?

I hope it´s possible to understand what i mean

so far good thread, with good informations for us beginners

if you want to choose the "right" music, just pick music from different genres, but music that you know very well.
make sure it covers a lof the frequency spectrum.
(most electronic music does in fact, but it's also a good idea to take other genres with you, stuff with a lot of dynamics that isn't compressed to death, like classical music, preferable with voices too)
but there is no "right" music, rather music that is right for you

it's about you picking music that you know very well.

but in general, I don't think you will be able to say very much from listening in a shop somewhere. the room will probably be huge, the monitors not positioned properly (too far away from you, not on ear higth, not turned towards you (triangle), other people are making noise in the shop,...
research a lot for a good pair that a lot of people are happy with, that should deliver you a rather flat response. then take a listening test if you can, but I don't think the listening will help you that much.
it's probably more of a final touch, and to see if it's not a "hate on first listening"-kind of thing.
but if it's your first pair of monitors, you'll probably be so overwhelmed by the quality of sound that chances might be small you'll dislike them (if they're good monitors)

can you train your ears ?
yes, I certainly believe you can.
that's also why I think your listening test won't do much when you buy your first pair, cause your ears aren't used (or "trained") to listening on monitors like they are if you buy monitors a few years later.

I also think your hearing gets a lot better over the years the longer you do this.
when I was a teenager and still doing my classical music school education, we often had to do listening tests. looking back, it did help you to focus more and really practice your hearing.

2 small and simple tips I can think of :

1. if you want to make genre A or B, then listen to genre A or B as much as possible. this will automatically train your hearing more for that genre.
don't listen to that exclusively (how boring that would be), but still, make it a big part of what you listen to, and it will help you in the long run.

2. close your eyes a lot when listening to music. there's a reason blind people have such great hearing, cliché as it is, it's true that it makes you focus more on what you hear when you can't see.

[steevio]

but if it's any comfort, it seems the andromeda gets bought and sold a lot.
the people that keep it, can't stop raving about it (my apologies)
and the others never really connected with it, I guess.
what did you dislike about it ?
I'm curious to know.
and what other gear would you prefer to the andromeda ?

btw, anyone who bothered to check out your tracks and knows a bit about sound design, would know you could handle an andromeda steevio.
nice tracks !

thanks for the kind words mate.

i bought the andromeda because i couldnt afford a modular and imo it was the nearest thing you could get to a modular analogue synth in one box, all those mod routings and buttons at hand etc.
i realeased some records which i still like today that were made totally on the andromeda (+909) so it wasnt a total train wreck,
but i hated the interface, those horrible fiddly little encoders and that nasty little almost illegible screen.
it was a massive relief when i ditched it and bought a Moog voyager, thats a proper live musical instrument.. now ive got a nice modular set-up as well and the andromeda is just a bad dream. it served its purpose for a short while , but it also stiffled my creativity for a couple of years.
it just didnt suit me mate, thats not to say it might be perfect for someone else.

i'm much more at home with kit thats immedeate and musical, i hate screens, menus and procrastination. i dont like controllers either, i like real analogue controls, i know how to program softsynths and assign controllers etc, but its not the same, i always feel disconnected from the sound, and yes i do think alot of analogue synths sound way better, i think the sounds blend together better. again though its just personal taste.

i dont think the argument is whether hardware or software is better. because a lot of hardware is sh!t, i just go back to my original statement on this thread, if you're going to get hardware, get the good sh!t !
i would say the same about software.
thats all i was saying really.

[codix]

if you want to choose the "right" music, just pick music from different genres, but music that you know very well.
make sure it covers a lof the frequency spectrum.
(most electronic music does in fact, but it's also a good idea to take other genres with you, stuff with a lot of dynamics that isn't compressed to death, like classical music, preferable with voices too)
but there is no "right" music, rather music that is right for you

it's about you picking music that you know very well.

but in general, I don't think you will be able to say very much from listening in a shop somewhere. the room will probably be huge, the monitors not positioned properly (too far away from you, not on ear higth, not turned towards you (triangle), other people are making noise in the shop,...
research a lot for a good pair that a lot of people are happy with, that should deliver you a rather flat response. then take a listening test if you can, but I don't think the listening will help you that much.
it's probably more of a final touch, and to see if it's not a "hate on first listening"-kind of thing.
but if it's your first pair of monitors, you'll probably be so overwhelmed by the quality of sound that chances might be small you'll dislike them (if they're good monitors)

can you train your ears ?
yes, I certainly believe you can.
that's also why I think your listening test won't do much when you buy your first pair, cause your ears aren't used (or "trained") to listening on monitors like they are if you buy monitors a few years later.

I also think your hearing gets a lot better over the years the longer you do this.
when I was a teenager and still doing my classical music school education, we often had to do listening tests. looking back, it did help you to focus more and really practice your hearing.

2 small and simple tips I can think of :

1. if you want to make genre A or B, then listen to genre A or B as much as possible. this will automatically train your hearing more for that genre.
don't listen to that exclusively (how boring that would be), but still, make it a big part of what you listen to, and it will help you in the long run.

2. close your eyes a lot when listening to music. there's a reason blind people have such great hearing, cliché as it is, it's true that it makes you focus more on what you hear when you can't see.

man you got 10 posts in this forum and all 10 are helpfull :-D make more posts hehe

you totally got the point, what i was asking about. cause learning to listen right is a process. i only got some "akg k240" headphones at the moment.
but some years back when i got them, they changend my listening.
i heard so much more in some music, even learn to love music, i never liked/understood before.

thx really much for answering my questions. the last points you mentioned i do thins some months i would say. i also started now, working with the software "audiomulch" to learn more about audio engineering. and the software works good out for me.

i just have to read some more about the basics, harmonics and stuff and learn to get it out from the head, right into the software. will take some years, but hopefully it works out some day.

thx much man! good to have you on board.

p.s.: maybe a stupid question, where can i listen some of your stuff?
maybe i should know it already

[Hades]

thanks for the kind words mate.

i bought the andromeda because i couldnt afford a modular and imo it was the nearest thing you could get to a modular analogue synth in one box, all those mod routings and buttons at hand etc.
i realeased some records which i still like today that were made totally on the andromeda (+909) so it wasnt a total train wreck,
but i hated the interface, those horrible fiddly little encoders and that nasty little almost illegible screen.
it was a massive relief when i ditched it and bought a Moog voyager, thats a proper live musical instrument.. now ive got a nice modular set-up as well and the andromeda is just a bad dream. it served its purpose for a short while , but it also stiffled my creativity for a couple of years.

i'm much more at home with kit thats immedeate and musical, i hate screens, menus and procrastination. i dont like controllers either, i like real analogue controls, i know how to program softsynths and assign controllers etc, but its not the same. and yes i do think alot of analogue synths sound way better.

i dont think the argument is whether hardware or software is better. because a lot of hardware is sh!t, i just go back to my original statement on this thread, if you're going to get hardware, get the good sh!t !
i would say the same about software.
thats all i was saying really.

yeah. interface.
I quite like the one on the andy, but that's me I guess.
and interfaces are very important I think.
if people ask me what first hardware synth to get, I always always always stress how important the interface is, cause if you don't like it, you're simply not gonna make a lot of stuff with it. if it slows you down, it will kill your creativity.
I mean, you'll always have "slowing down-moments" when you're making music (there is no plug to attach to your forehead and make your track come out finished so you gotta think at times how t do some stuff, and redo other stuff and what not), but when they happen constantly, then you have a serious problem.
the more you can fly with your gear, the more fun it is, and the better the results probably will be.
(for me, that's another reason why I could never use a hardware sequencer or sampler, cause I have the "fly"-feeling a lot with Ableton, and just thinking about how slower sampling would be with a hardware sampler gives me a headache)

I can agree with the knobs not being overly great. they're too fucking sensitive for sure, but the "view" buttons help a lot, and the "up" and "down" buttons for fine-tuning (or pressing both to reset and then moving to desired value sometimes works faster though)
the screen isn't that great, but still a lot bigger than what most synths have, so I'm not complaining about that.
what they should have integrated in my opinion is some arrows, so that you could easily move around on the screen instead of the stupid tabbing you've got to do now. and probably also a dial to easier dial in a value.
that would've been nice.

I can see why you like the voyager. it would probably be on my list too if I'd feel I needed it in some way.
(I never liked the LittlePhatty though, what a hugely overrated and overpriced thing)

for me, it's a sherman, evolver and eventide H8000, and acidlab bassline2
that are still on my list, but after that, I don't think I'll ever need any more hardware.
it's been enough too. I want to have the feeling that I can control everything that I have, you know ? and actually use it to the fullest (or as good as I can).
I don't want to be this gearjunkie thinking he'll make better tracks with yet another synth, while he should be exploring the stuff he has more.
so the stuff that I still want are for very specific reasons.
bassline for acid bass, evolver cause it's rather unique, H8000 for constant audio-orgasms for the rest of my life, and sherman cause I need to support a Belgian genius (and have a lot of fun along the way)

when building my setup, I tried to include every possible synthesis method, and I think I do have them all by now : RA & VA, rompler, additive, FM, wavetable, the more exotic stuff like granular, spectral,... (which are still very much in their child shoes, so not at all that much fun or interesting in the long run).

pt 2 following

[Hades]

I don't know, but the longer I'm into sound design, the less I'm interested in synth A or B, and the more I'm all into sampling and especially resampling stuff and finding weird FX combinations. I don't know, it just seems so much more free, and more "unexplored territory", if you know what I'm trying to say.
I know it's a bad comparison, but still.
I mean, I hear so many synthgeeks rave about the filters on their synth, or complain about slow envelopes for this and that, and think :
"but guys, you're just talking about one box. how about throwing all the boxes together for everything. or taking apart all the boxes and use part 1 from box A with part 3 from box F and blablabla"
I guess resampling and stuff is a bit like modular synthesis, no ? (which is missing from my setup, I forgot...)
you enjoy the freedom you have to connect and reconnect as much as you can and see what comes up.
add sample A to sample B, run it through FX C and D, resample, take only the top part and put it on sample E, then run it through FX F, then use only the first 2 ms of it and paste it on sample X and...
it just seems so much more free, without any rules and limits, as compared to "trying to find the perfect bass patch with synth A" or whatever...
but maybe that's just me...

anyways, I'm rambling again...

[Hades]

man you got 10 posts in this forum and all 10 are helpfull :-D make more posts hehe

you totally got the point, what i was asking about. cause learning to listen right is a process. i only got some "akg k240" headphones at the moment.
but some years back when i got them, they changend my listening.
i heard so much more in some music, even learn to love music, i never liked/understood before.

thx really much for answering my questions. the last points you mentioned i do thins some months i would say. i also started now, working with the software "audiomulch" to learn more about audio engineering. and the software works good out for me.

i just have to read some more about the basics, harmonics and stuff and learn to get it out from the head, right into the software. will take some years, but hopefully it works out some day.

thx much man! good to have you on board.

p.s.: maybe a stupid question, where can i listen some of your stuff?
maybe i should know it already

thx for the kind words.
I'm not sure if I'm always that helpful.
sometimes I just talk too much.
I think I probably made over 5000 or 6000 posts at vintagesynth in the past, but most of that was even on the old forum (before 2004), and nowadays I'm hardly never there anymore.
I guess my lenghty output in one day shows that it feels good to be talking about synths and sound to likeminded (and openminded !!) people.
something I missed more and more at vintagesynth over the years, I guess...

I just discovered this forum yesterday, and I hope it stays as nice as it looks. (loved the post about hyperacousis, which is something I've had for many years, probably the first time I actually read something useful about it)
but I'm not sure if I'll be posting anywhere else than in the producing section.
I've lost too much time in the past posting on forums, and life just takes up more and more of the free time I have. (and having a little one humping around the house is one massive time-consumer)
or maybe it's just that I'm too greedy in life.
I don't just want to make music, I need to have a whole studio and want to understand every synth I have, or I'm not pleased with myself.
I don't just want to read a book once in a while, I need to read as many as I can, or I have the feeling there's too much great literature I'm missing.
I don't just want to watch a good film now and then, I need to watch about 20 films a month.

things would be easier if I'd simplify more I guess...
how can people really get home at night and switch on the telly and be happy couch-sitters, I really wonder ??
I've been living happily without tv for 13 years now, and still have the constant impression there's not enough time for everything in life.

but anyways, all I want to say is :
you're a great bunch, I like it here. (glad to be onboard)
and I'm happy if I can help.
but take everything I say with a dead sea of salt.
it's just an opinion like any other on the internet.

will PM you codix, but not sure if I'll still have the time tonight.