Techno bass question

- ask away
User avatar
Dusk
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:29 pm

Post by Dusk »

Hi artic origin,

Like many classic techno basslines, this is about getting sine waves (i.e. sub bass) to interact in a pleasing rhythmic way with the kick.

The first point is that the more notes used in each division of a bar, the greater the perceived energy. For this reason the cliched tech bass would be very short sine waves with sharp attack - basically, "mini-kick" drums - played on shuffled 16ths notes, velocity edited for groove, then sidechained with the kick.

At the other end of the spectrum. "dubby" sine basses involved longer notes, often pitch modulated for a sense of suction into the next kick drum. A bassline that pays attention to both aspects is a winner, plenty of energy but also that nice suction!

The other key point is to think of your kick and bass as part of the same entity; therefore the kick needs to be tuned to the note of your bass, by using a freq analyser on the kick and the below link:

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/notes.html

In this way, in many tunes, a kick drum forms the "interval" note in the bassline, or actually completes it by being the root note that the bassline returns to.

Pattern wise, the most obvious are this 16th-note cliche and then the even more cliche offbeat pattern. But for a bass like that in the clip, you'll need to play around.

Take a sine wave, set to full sustain so it plays as long as you hold the note for.

First try applying POSITIVE (rising) or NEGATIVE (downwards) pitch envelopes. Experiment with the size of the envelope, i.e. the amount of decay / attack, depending on whether its a postive or negative envelope. Experiment with the amount, i.e. 1 octave, 6 semitones, etc, and consequently adjust the starting note pitch as suitable.

To create the kind of "mini-kick" sound i mentioned earlier use a negative (downwards) pitch envelope with a very short decay. For more dubby, sucking, trippy sub bass, try a small positive pitch envelope, timed with an attack of say 1/4 or 1/8 - play around until it's "pulling" into the next kick drum.

Then try and/or a pitch lfo (set to rhythmic divisions, 1/8, 1/4, 3/6 etc.) with again trying positive and negative amounts, and experimenting with small-to-medium amounts of modulation (usually not too much.)

Then program some variations on the offbeat pattern, i.e. notes 3+6, or 4+7 (of 16ths) - rather than notes 3+7 (of 16ths) for the standard off beat.

Keep experimenting with shifting the notes around, forwards or backwards, try some intervals like 3rds and 5ths too, while experimenting with all the synthesis settings above - you will eventually hear when the kick and bass are locked in an energetic way, and/or dubby way!

Oh, sound design and processing wise, try some saturation and distortion before low passing around 200 hz, to gently thicken the freqs directly above the sub bass region.

Finally, in this clip, the bassline is then augmented with low/mid range percussion "filling the gaps" between the bass and kick, creating extra syncopated energy to drive the beat forward.

Hope that helps. :)
Last edited by Dusk on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Some music:
www.myspace.com/cloakmusic

Reviews, news and more:
www.inverted-audio.co.uk
User avatar
Dusk
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:29 pm

Post by Dusk »

Stomper wrote:I dont get people here sometime.
+1
Some music:
www.myspace.com/cloakmusic

Reviews, news and more:
www.inverted-audio.co.uk
User avatar
Hugues31
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:45 pm
Location: Ireland\France

Post by Hugues31 »

Stomper wrote:I dont get people here sometime. If somebody asks a question that seams too nooby for them, they just flame insted of help the guy. all i can say is that you should remember that once you were a noob too and even though you learned yourslef, that doesnt mean you cant help.
I do totally feel the same way ! You don't want to help or even to answer, that's ok, but you don't have to blame someone just because he asked a question ! and i don't think the question he asked desserves such harsh answer ! Just my 2 cents !

To artic I think you got pretty good advices with Stomper's and Dusk's posts.
Hope it will help you !
Themis
mnml moderator
mnml moderator
Posts: 2690
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Vienna

Post by Themis »

haha livecollective

if you wanted to refer to the schroedingers cat paradox ... the story is a bit different

but you are close :D

but the conversation is brilliant
A cat is in a closed box, you open it... what does the cat do?
i think the cat stays in the box for a while and finaly jumps out.
MagpieIndustries
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:23 am

Post by MagpieIndustries »

Rookas wrote:and then they call themselves producers and sound engineers:)))
Any idea what we call you?
User avatar
Stomper
mnml maxi
mnml maxi
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:41 am

Post by Stomper »

Dusk wrote:Hi artic origin,

Like many classic techno basslines, this is about getting sine waves (i.e. sub bass)
Thats the fast way to do it, but imo its wrong.
A sine wave dont have any harmonic content, only fundemental.
so, if you make a bass that plays in 60Hz, it would sound fine on your system and most likely will sound good in a club. but my car stereo cant produce under 80-100hz, so it wont produce ANY bass sound. and if the bass is part of the rhythm, i will loose the feel of the track when i listen in my car.
if the bass is 50hz, it wont sound good in a club (depends on the system of course).

using pulse, with the right pwm settings and very closed filter still leaves harmonic content, so ill be able to hear it even in my crappy car stereo. or in other words, it will sound good anywhere you play it on.

Just my own opinion though. if you use sine, i only suggest you use a note which is not too low.


Stomper.
User avatar
hydrogen
mnml maxi
mnml maxi
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:41 am

Post by hydrogen »

Dusk wrote:
Stomper wrote:I dont get people here sometime.
+1
But Dusk your giving away our best tricks!
------------------------------------------------------
http://soundcloud.com/kirkwoodwest
User avatar
Dusk
mnml mmbr
mnml mmbr
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:29 pm

Post by Dusk »

Stomper wrote: using pulse, with the right pwm settings and very closed filter still leaves harmonic content, so ill be able to hear it even in my crappy car stereo. or in other words, it will sound good anywhere you play it on.

Just my own opinion though. if you use sine, i only suggest you use a note which is not too low.
Thanks for the tip - not trying to be a dck here, but I'm well aware of what frequencies and techniques ensure reproduction on all systems!

As for your earlier method...
Stomper wrote: Pulse waveform on in the osc...
modulate the cutoff with no attack, no sustain, no release. than adjust the decay and modulation amount to fit to your track.
... modulating the filter cutoff on a resonant pulse wave can definitely produce a good (if slightly electro) bass line, but it will certainly not produce one like that in the clip. Or, infact, one you'd hear in 90% of today's techno.
Some music:
www.myspace.com/cloakmusic

Reviews, news and more:
www.inverted-audio.co.uk
Post Reply