troy pierce

[grace anxiety]

to say hes the best dj around is ludicrous.

[keto]

to say hes the best dj around is ludicrous.

please name ca. 6 your own favourite jocks.

[JackNine]

Tommy Lee is the best DJ around. Seriously.

[malle eppie]

to say hes the best dj around is ludicrous.

yeah just like saying "for me"

[Coog]

I'm gonna go with Perry Farell.

[AVX23]

I have seen your comments around the board, Celltek, and you do seem pretty switched on. But it looks like you didn't read what I wrote in this thread.
You think that is nonsense?

And what is shameful about complaining that a dj just sat down for the full two hour set, and didn't make any effort to try and save it once he saw that he was losing people rapidly. He didn't even get off his seat...

i agree with you, its not nonsense to give a review on a dj. celltek is a good guy im not sure why he is saying its nonsense, it doesnt sound like something he would say.

I did say that, and must acknowledge that thats not my usual tone and let me explain. Looking further on this forum it seems there is a sense of deep dissapointment about certain dj's and you'll often read whiney posts about dj's and how they suck bla bla (the mnus crew in particular). This is not to say that im a fan or anything but I personally dont believe in discussing another ones bad (DJ) skills if im not in a position to do a better job ie.. dj-ing, hosting and promoting.
Putting aside your personal experience Rich (which I which i think sux big time) Why not focus energy on new and developing sounds and artists, instead of moaning about richie and CO. because I dont think its gonna make Troy try harder. The continuation of this hyping in combination with the bad performances (which I have heard plenty of) will result in the people not buying tickets or people spending their cash elsewhere. These guys have enjoyed enough attention and its time to focus on DJ's and Live acts that are making a difference, perhaps then they'll get serious, lose the ego's and start making/playing good music again.

Ps. Antipop is also one of my favourite sets which is on heavy rotation on my ipod.

Celtek, I think we all touched on this recently where there was a thread slating people for giving crit on some of the mixes in the sets forum.

If we weren't able to debate what was good and bad or inbetween, how would we rate anything ?

It's a totally fair point that people should not get bogged down in the negative, it's also a good point that a lot of whiney people make noise about disappointing sets and sometimes this is in ignorance eg: where a DJ is booked or wants to play a more downtempo set and the 'fans' don't like it because they ain't droppin 'big tunes' but I also think that noise is made for good reason, and why not ? If people have paid money to see him, why not make a noise when he fails to deliver ? He's meant to be a professional after all.

I do think critisicm is a healthy thing.

It's all down to how tactfully it's given and how Egotistical the people recieving it are.

Personally - I like feedback, I like to know when I get things wrong, much as I like to hear also when I get it right.

Music is a highly subjective experience, therefore there's no immediate right or wrong as to tracks or DJs or live acts being great or not, this perception differs from person to person and can be subjective to mood, how pissed they might be - heaps of things really.

Take Hawtin - I've heard him play total downtempo/crackly/experimental/true minimal stuff, and loved every minute of it, even at peak-time , this would excite me, but I accept that a lot of my friends that go to Pressure or whatnot to see him play - want to hear him play what I see as the more accesable side of his music, a lot of them don't take as much time to research or listen to music as I do , and so they are satisfied with a walloping 808 kick + hats, some occasional crackles, disjointed vocals , a farty bassline and don't care if it's Loco Dice or Craig David that's made it !

Therefore - they might make some noise if he rocked up to pressure and played the entire Rythym and Sound back Catalogue or wall to wall atmospherics, I'm sure at least 5 of us in the audience would love it and defend him to the death for playing it but at the same time , we'd be pretty stupid or drunk not to realise that he wasn't really fulfiling his role of entertaining a mixed crowd of dance music fans with his 'nonsense'

The nature of music and with it being quite sociable means it's open to all sorts of discussion, there's no point in getting upset when people talk negatively about things, it's not them being nasty, or even necc idiotic - that's just the way things are, If we didn't know what bad was - how would we know what was good ?

As far as only being able to slate things if you can do better, I can't agree with that either, when a music journalist writes a review are you saying that they should be able to do better if they give it a poor rating ?

I know a lot of well informed music journalists with better knowledge of music (playing and theory) than a lot of musicians I know.

Thing is - their main 'qualification' Is in Writing and journalism, they don't tend to make music as their passion is writing about it, are you telling me that they should all spend a year in Hawtins studio making tracks and touring before they are allowed to comment negatively on music ?

As for people who simply listen to music and don't produce it, are we saying their opinions don't count ?

Just can't fathom out why it should be all airy fairy and 'yeah mate that's wicked' all the time, clearly it's sometimes lies, I've heard plenty of trainwrecked crap mixes on this forum and others, If someone had put up a post saying : This mix is no good, the mixes are trainwrecked and it's a mess, only download if you were there as a kinda good memory of the night type thing then I'd be happy - because I don't have to spend 30 mins to an hour downloading it to find it's a nightmare.

I got a SCION set recently which was awful - SCION are one of my fave Acts, and their DJing is pretty good normally (DJ Pete after all is especially skilled). The mixes were trainwrecked and there's some really dodgy track selections, in fact there's bits where clearly they just weren't trying.

Still someone's put - 'Wicked - Great Set' Up somewhere for it.

I just can't understand why people would do that, it's pointless, surely people would rather have the truth ??

I'm all for encouraging people, but lying or glossing over the failings of about the skills of established artists is pointless and does nothing to further enhance the music.

[Atheory]

I have seen your comments around the board, Celltek, and you do seem pretty switched on. But it looks like you didn't read what I wrote in this thread.
You think that is nonsense?

And what is shameful about complaining that a dj just sat down for the full two hour set, and didn't make any effort to try and save it once he saw that he was losing people rapidly. He didn't even get off his seat...

i agree with you, its not nonsense to give a review on a dj. celltek is a good guy im not sure why he is saying its nonsense, it doesnt sound like something he would say.

I did say that, and must acknowledge that thats not my usual tone and let me explain. Looking further on this forum it seems there is a sense of deep dissapointment about certain dj's and you'll often read whiney posts about dj's and how they suck bla bla (the mnus crew in particular). This is not to say that im a fan or anything but I personally dont believe in discussing another ones bad (DJ) skills if im not in a position to do a better job ie.. dj-ing, hosting and promoting.
Putting aside your personal experience Rich (which I which i think sux big time) Why not focus energy on new and developing sounds and artists, instead of moaning about richie and CO. because I dont think its gonna make Troy try harder. The continuation of this hyping in combination with the bad performances (which I have heard plenty of) will result in the people not buying tickets or people spending their cash elsewhere. These guys have enjoyed enough attention and its time to focus on DJ's and Live acts that are making a difference, perhaps then they'll get serious, lose the ego's and start making/playing good music again.

Ps. Antipop is also one of my favourite sets which is on heavy rotation on my ipod.

Celtek, I think we all touched on this recently where there was a thread slating people for giving crit on some of the mixes in the sets forum.

If we weren't able to debate what was good and bad or inbetween, how would we rate anything ?

It's a totally fair point that people should not get bogged down in the negative, it's also a good point that a lot of whiney people make noise about disappointing sets and sometimes this is in ignorance eg: where a DJ is booked or wants to play a more downtempo set and the 'fans' don't like it because they ain't droppin 'big tunes' but I also think that noise is made for good reason, and why not ? If people have paid money to see him, why not make a noise when he fails to deliver ? He's meant to be a professional after all.

I do think critisicm is a healthy thing.

It's all down to how tactfully it's given and how Egotistical the people recieving it are.

Personally - I like feedback, I like to know when I get things wrong, much as I like to hear also when I get it right.

Music is a highly subjective experience, therefore there's no immediate right or wrong as to tracks or DJs or live acts being great or not, this perception differs from person to person and can be subjective to mood, how pissed they might be - heaps of things really.

Take Hawtin - I've heard him play total downtempo/crackly/experimental/true minimal stuff, and loved every minute of it, even at peak-time , this would excite me, but I accept that a lot of my friends that go to Pressure or whatnot to see him play - want to hear him play what I see as the more accesable side of his music, a lot of them don't take as much time to research or listen to music as I do , and so they are satisfied with a walloping 808 kick + hats, some occasional crackles, disjointed vocals , a farty bassline and don't care if it's Loco Dice or Craig David that's made it !

Therefore - they might make some noise if he rocked up to pressure and played the entire Rythym and Sound back Catalogue or wall to wall atmospherics, I'm sure at least 5 of us in the audience would love it and defend him to the death for playing it but at the same time , we'd be pretty stupid or drunk not to realise that he wasn't really fulfiling his role of entertaining a mixed crowd of dance music fans with his 'nonsense'

The nature of music and with it being quite sociable means it's open to all sorts of discussion, there's no point in getting upset when people talk negatively about things, it's not them being nasty, or even necc idiotic - that's just the way things are, If we didn't know what bad was - how would we know what was good ?

As far as only being able to slate things if you can do better, I can't agree with that either, when a music journalist writes a review are you saying that they should be able to do better if they give it a poor rating ?

I know a lot of well informed music journalists with better knowledge of music (playing and theory) than a lot of musicians I know.

Thing is - their main 'qualification' Is in Writing and journalism, they don't tend to make music as their passion is writing about it, are you telling me that they should all spend a year in Hawtins studio making tracks and touring before they are allowed to comment negatively on music ?

As for people who simply listen to music and don't produce it, are we saying their opinions don't count ?

Just can't fathom out why it should be all airy fairy and 'yeah mate that's wicked' all the time, clearly it's sometimes lies, I've heard plenty of trainwrecked crap mixes on this forum and others, If someone had put up a post saying : This mix is no good, the mixes are trainwrecked and it's a mess, only download if you were there as a kinda good memory of the night type thing then I'd be happy - because I don't have to spend 30 mins to an hour downloading it to find it's a nightmare.

I got a SCION set recently which was awful - SCION are one of my fave Acts, and their DJing is pretty good normally (DJ Pete after all is especially skilled). The mixes were trainwrecked and there's some really dodgy track selections, in fact there's bits where clearly they just weren't trying.

Still someone's put - 'Wicked - Great Set' Up somewhere for it.

I just can't understand why people would do that, it's pointless, surely people would rather have the truth ??

I'm all for encouraging people, but lying or glossing over the failings of about the skills of established artists is pointless and does nothing to further enhance the music.

yes......+1.....hang the yes men.

[Rich]

I think the problem is that when an artist is super-cool, as the M-nus bunch are for example, then you find loads of people who will say that they are wonderful regardless of how they actually play, simply becasue of who they are (for example - the comments on the Resident Advisor thread for the Hawtin podcast. That was genuinely embarassing...)

But on the flip side, there are a lot of people who hate on anyone famous or "cool," and they just slate them for everything they do, and whine about them non-stop, again regardless of what the artists actually does.

Neither of those is realistic, or fair.

Just try to keep an open mind, listen to the music instead of focussing on who is mixing/producing it, and then make your comments based on that.

But yeah, good and bad comments are needed, to keep a balance. If all the comments are good or all bad, then it means nothing anymore.

To quote Stanley Kubrik - "Perhaps when everything is beautiful, nothing is beautiful"

;-)