mp3's killed the black beauty

[vermi]

Better sound
Digital releases (when mastered properly) sound -much- better than their vinyl counterparts. No worries about dirt, hisses, pops, clicks or track degradation upon subsequent plays. Also, vinyl itself has sonic limitations where digital tracks do not.

wont that only apply to flac / wav / other lossless ?

the only limitation i see is the length of the track, the longer the track(s) is/are, the worse the quality of the sound on the vinyl gets. but for a track(s) of "optimal" length, i dont think i can believe that a 320kbps mp3 will sound better than vinyl.

[Krul]

No worries about dirt, hisses, pops, clicks or track degradation upon subsequent plays.

I like the hisses, the pops, the clicks, etc. Many mnml tracks have hisses pops and clicks in 'em .

And I know vinyl degrades, but doesn't that take a very long time? (read a couple of 1000 plays somewhere)

['gameover']

if dj's who run vinyl labels and go through all the trouble of pressing vinyl and are themselves not even playing vinyl...

no, they are just interested about what is going on at beatport with their own label...
digital releases should have limitation about the downloads on each website, like the same number as the release on wax. there's one way to protect a little bit more the vinyl i guess.

anyway, i wouldn't buy digital never ever... seems like a joke buying digital to me.

[JackNine]

My only reference point is that if I hear anything below 320 kbps on a big system, it seems to sound worse than vinyl...kinda tinny, not enough depth, too much on the high freqs

Most would say 256k is the real threshold (I remember Richie explaining in an interview why he chose 256k for his DE9: Transitions .MP3). But I agree with you on the 320k observation. On a substandard club system, 192k or 256k work fine. But on a nice reference-quality system, or on your studio monitors (if they're high end), everything below 320k sounds tinny and compressed.

Personally, I prefer buying everything as .WAV and converting them down to 320k myself. (You can do the same with vinyl.) I keep the .WAVs stored on a 2TB hard drive, and the 320k versions stored locally on my laptop.

I've done many side-by-side tests looking for the clear winner in overall sound quality, but the best test came from when I played the same song side by side (.WAV vs. 320k .MP3) on a $10k set of monstrous Dunlavy hi-fi stereo speakers and no one in the room could tell the difference, including me.

I like the hisses, the pops, the clicks, etc. Many mnml tracks have hisses pops and clicks in 'em .

And I know vinyl degrades, but doesn't that take a very long time? (read a couple of 1000 plays somewhere)

A lot of people like the dirt, noise and pops. I can't take anything away from you if you're one of those people. For me, I prefer to hear the recording the way it was intended to be heard by the artist. That is, without any platter vibrations from the motor going up into the needle, without any dirt or hissing or pops, etc.

And as for the 1000 plays thing, that is absolutely ridiculous. Vinyl degradation is directly related to the thickness and quality of the vinyl itself. There are some shitty plates out there, and there are some really good ones. Vinyl degrades every single time you play it. It is a diamond-tipped stylus riding in a groove of soft vinyl, after all. Diamond is one of the hardest substances known to man, and it wins, every time.

[v404]

Jack Nine, minimal house & john clees all raise great points..

I, like most people who've been mixing since before digital was even an option, prefer vinyl for mixing. I worked at an EDM-only vinyl store for 6 years until it closed in Dec of 06. And here in the States, there aren't exactly a lot of options. So it was a real loss as far as my vinyl options go.

I held on strong for a good year, ordering online and having to pay a lot more $$$ w/ shipping. But also being frustrated more often due to misleading online samples and the growing number of great digital releases.

So this past December, I finally made the jump to Traktor Scratch. And honestly, it has superseded my expectations. I've been mixing for 10+ years & I never enjoyed mixing w/ CDJ's or just a laptop.. It always felt sterile to me. But the vinyl interface is an amazing solution for people who want the digital option but the analog interface.

You can still play/buy regular vinyl, you just don't have to. Now I only buy vinyl I REALLY enjoy & that are solid or vinyl exclusive.. Not releases w/ just 1 or 2 good tracks. Or if I'm on the fence about a track, big deal, it's only a few bucks. It's a much safer gamble than an entire release. You simply can't argue with buying a non-degradable format at the fraction of the cost & being able to play it virtually instantly. Especially if you don't have a practical vinyl outlet. My money simply goes further w/ digital.

I don't own a label, but I also like the concept of digital in that I now even more specifically support the music I want to support. I'm not buying a package where a label can sell me a 12" of crap for that one track when that same money could've gone towards 4-5 choice tracks. If an artist/label is putting out releases w/ only 1 good track, they'll see it in the numbers at the end of the day. And it's a healthy stat to have for any label or artist.

But ultimately, it seems more & more common for the music I love most to only be available digitally. & I want to mix it. So I'd rather those artists be able to do whatever they want creatively than have to sell it to a label who is looking for a particular style/format to resell to a small, picky, jaded, & esoteric public (like me).. It's simply easier for everybody involved. From the Artist to the Label to the Consumer&/or Perfomer.

& one last point... (bare w/ me)

I really feel as though in many ways Digital is saving electronica. Particularly music that was previously vinyl exclusive. I think for many potentially new enthusiasts/djs/fans/etc, they are intimidated by the fact that so much great music has already passed them by. They know that they'll never get those old "gems" they really want unless they're extremely lucky or they pay some gauger online so they don't even bother. And I feel as though that hurts the scene more than file sharing as it perpetuates an elitist attitude & hinders new generations of fans from hearing the great music that should be heard by the people who want to hear it.

GOOD GOD! this is probably the longest post I've ever written

[PsyTox]

it's an interesting one though (and exactly how I feel about it, applies to my situation as well).

[attentat]

I was a vinyl DJ for years and I switched to digital 2 years ago. I went to Burning Man with the Wolf + Lamb guys and they said that there was no way to use records on the playa because the dust just accumulates to fast and half way through the track the needle is fucked. So I warped some tracks and we mixed in Abelton while we were there. I never thought that I would switch to being a digital DJ. When I got back from Burning Man I said no more vinyl.
Reasons why? It's heavy, I hate buying one record and only getting one track, and most importantly it's a waste of material. Petroleum is running out and it's hazardous to the environment. To me techno music has all ways been about being smarter and advancing consciousness. Holding on to outdated concepts like vinyl doesn't make sense. Evolution is real and it's about getting better at adapting. some organisms never adapt and live a healthy normal existence. Our species doesn't work like that. Our industrialism has effected the environment without a doubt. How much we are effecting global climate change might be debatable but the truth is we are polluting the air, water and land all the time. If we can not adapt then we will make the planet unlivable.
The point about vinyl being worth more than digital tracks or collectible some day makes me uneasy. Just like vinyl this capitalist notion of worth seems outdated to me. It's time to move beyond the archaic thinking of capitalism. I know I own a label and work a day job and help the capitalist project in my day today life. I try to supplement this by reading alternative history and educating myself about the histories of people and their attempts at creating a non-capitalist world. Techno music is revolutionary in it's nature. I think this idea has been subdued by minimal hipsterism. Some might try to accuse me of being a hipster and well I don't know maybe i am. I know I don't listen to techno to be cool. I was a house dj for the first 5 years of my career but then my friend started giving me Perlon records and I was blown away. I sold all my house records and never looked back. I am not trying to say " I am really techno". I am just saying I have been into this sh!t because I love the sound of techno. i think it is evolved and revolutionary. Making music should not be about money. Granted it would be nice to support yourself with your creativity it should be about more than that in my opinion. That's what's greatest about net labels. All though I guess the hope of most people is to get discovered then get paid after giving their stuff away.
Is anyone on this message board familiar with the history of Reclaim the Streets or the anti-road movement in Britain? These are examples of radicalism and electronic music that I think we can all learn from. Any how, I could keep ranting but i will stop.

[John Clees]

in many years working in sales... I was told something that is very effective..facts (tell) - stories (sell)....

to put it like this... if you (collect) comic books and one day... you can get them online... you still have the same product....

and in the end the people who want to collect them will / the people who want the online version will get them..

no one is right / no one is wrong... collecting actual comic books is not going to be outdated it's personal preference and choice...

sharing with your friends is a bit easier with the online version... however some people take pride in owning something they can hold/touch/feel.

I think it's a wonderful thing to have a bridge for digital music - playing out unreleased music / personal production / & testing out the product with limited or no cost...

it's like telling someone the color blue is outdated... in the end it's personal opinion.

I think their will always be a market for those that enjoy vinyl....