Everybody Listen Up

NoAffiliation · Post by **NoAffiliation** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:02 pm

this limiting thing for loudness seems so arbitrary. i can see that being important for a mix that's recorded analog but in a floating point DAW with almost infinite headroom??

you can render a 32 bit mix out of the computer with more dynamic range than an atomic bomb and then scale it it down after, doing this makes much more sense than keeping it quiet and trying to make it louder.

if you open up photoshop, what's the difference to the eye of making a small picture larger vs. making a larger picture smaller? obviously the small picture distorts when it gets bigger where the larger picture will actually look more highly defined as its made smaller.

the whole thing with floating point is you can render or record a file with much more dynamic range than 24 bit and it wont clip. the advantage of doing this is that you are pushing the noise floor many magnitudes of levels lower and therefore creating a mix that will soar in sonics

the real fun is if you use 32 bit sound sources, microtonic for instance sounds pretty fucking wicked with 400db of dynamic range

there are people out there taking this to an extreme, literally hacking the digital dynamic range. optimal resolution in digital audio is the point right before clipping, if you take that literally, ableton for instance you get 60db over per channel. there are people out there that use every singe bit of that. the creator of the program being one of them. just saw the man at communikey in colorado and those channels soaring into "the red"

I dont get how more people aren't up with this stuff. There would be no point of implementing floating point in a DAW, we still put out music as 16 bit or mp3, 24 bit is more than sufficient for that.

The increase in quality of music production is because people understand how to use the technology correctly. I think maybe since techno kids are generally a bit more lazy we dont hear about this as much. check the dubstep forums or ableton

miro pajic · Post by **miro pajic** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:01 pm

tone-def wrote:has anyone found the loudness war to be a problem with music on vinyl? i find my new records are about the same loudness as stuff from the 90's. some suff from like 1989-1993 might seem quiet but most of it is similar.

tracks for vinyl don't get squashed in mastering.

Torque · Post by **Torque** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:33 am

miro pajic wrote:
tone-def wrote:has anyone found the loudness war to be a problem with music on vinyl? i find my new records are about the same loudness as stuff from the 90's. some suff from like 1989-1993 might seem quiet but most of it is similar.
tracks for vinyl don't get squashed in mastering.

Exactly
A track on vinyl has a limit to how loud it can get because if you process the signal too hard you just get a bunch of square waves and square waves down low that will make the needle jump out. Sometimes if you send a track to a vinyl mastering guy that is already too compressed he actually has to make it quieter just so the needle will stay in the groove. Processing a track too hard for vinyl can work against you majorly in that respect. My best results have always been with giving the vinyl cutter the least processed track i can.

kdgh · Post by **kdgh** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:28 pm

besides that... the (bedroom) producers nowadays have WAY more knowledge as in mixdowns and even mastering. The producers of 20 years ago didn't have a clue the f*ck they're doing most of the time (electronic music).

PsyTox · Post by **PsyTox** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:56 pm

miro pajic wrote:
tone-def wrote:has anyone found the loudness war to be a problem with music on vinyl? i find my new records are about the same loudness as stuff from the 90's. some suff from like 1989-1993 might seem quiet but most of it is similar.
tracks for vinyl don't get squashed in mastering.

Vinyl mastering often gets done LOUD too, you even have options with a lot of cutting plants to choose loudness. Vinyl mastering also limits the stereo field (because if that's too wide, the needle would simply be thrown out of the groove).
In the end it's all about make the right kind of compromises and adjustments towards the medium you intend to create, i guess...

Anyway, sh!t music sounds sh!t whatever format

Casanova808 · Post by **Casanova808** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:20 pm

tracks for vinyl don't get squashed in mastering.

No, they definitely do. I just got a TP for my new record from a famous mastering house in Europe and they completely ruined it. They compressed the sh!t out of the record so there is no dynamic range anymore and some of the tracks are cut so hot that the hi-hats and claps distort.

I make a point to use accents in my tracks to build a groove and they are just smushed flat. This record is totally a victim of loudness war mastering. I wish I could take the project away from ___ and go with my usual guy but they have the label's money. It is a bad situation.

The only advice I can give is that if you have a relationship with a mastering engineer who knows you music, don't switch it. If the label wont use your engineer then move on to a different label. I tried ___ because of the brand name, and it has been a nightmare.

::BLM:: · Post by **::BLM::** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:44 pm

Who done it?

Casanova808 · Post by **Casanova808** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:37 pm

One of the reasons I don't say who I am on the web is so that I can say things without it complicating my business relationships.

It is a big mess because the mastering, cutting, and plating have all been paid for. I didn't like the mastered waves to begin with, and I HATE the cut because they have cut the audio files too hot. It is just sad, the place completely fucked up what could be a very big record for me.

I don't want to get specific because the label still has to deal with these people to correct the situation. I don't want to make thing any more difficult than they already are. That is why I am not naming names.