The Minimal artistic ideal

[Smear]

Yeah but again, the average joe on the street doesn't know what techno is either. He knows the word, but he'll associate 2Unlimited, Scooter, Sensation Black and a whole load of other things which have got nothing to do with Techno as you or I know it. So again, where do you draw the line, what makes Techno an acceptable word to describe music but makes Minimal unacceptable?

[Torque]

Lord help anyone that listens to Scooter.......

I don't even care for the word techno quite honestly. I would just like to hear cats mix up all these retarted sub genres for once. It's all dance music people.... and if you stick too close to one mood only all you're going to do is be boring as hell or sound like every other sorry bastard trying to make what the next guy does. Once a genre name is assigned all innovation stops. Just look at history. the only way you can innovate in minimal (or anything else) is to make it not sound like minimal (or whatever else). All these terms have done is stick minimal in a small box stacked in the corner of another box called techno next to a bunch of other ones inside a bigger box called house inside another box called dance music which only constitutes 1/100th of the world market in music. Books on tape and cds with kids singing pop songs with barney out sell all of us put together. Purposely buying into subgenre music classifications will only hurt the electronic music industry even further. The global dance music community should stand up and fight this to the death before they do it some more. This kind of tendency only helps the majors keep the rest of us out of their markets.

[Smear]

Lord help anyone that listens to Scooter.......

I don't even care for the word techno quite honestly. I would just like to hear cats mix up all these retarted sub genres for once. It's all dance music people.... and if you stick too close to one mood only all you're going to do is be boring as hell or sound like every other sorry bastard trying to make what the next guy does. Once a genre name is assigned all innovation stops. Just look at history. the only way you can innovate in minimal (or anything else) is to make it not sound like minimal (or whatever else). All these terms have done is stick minimal in a small box stacked in the corner of another box called techno next to a bunch of other ones inside a bigger box called house inside another box called dance music which only constitutes 1/100th of the world market in music. Books on tape and cds with kids singing pop songs with barney out sell all of us put together. Purposely buying into subgenre music classifications will only hurt the electronic music industry even further. The global dance music community should stand up and fight this to the death before they do it some more. This kind of tendency only helps the majors keep the rest of us out of their markets.

Yeah i totally agree with most of that and I think that any genre or subgenres should be there as a rough descriptive guide only, but it shouldn't restrict what anyone does. Inevitably that's exactly what happens though, which is obviously a shame because people are close minded enough without such restrictions. And any kind of 'mixing up' that is done usually seems to be for cynical reasons, like a techno DJ will say 'don't box me in, i play techno, minimal, tech house, house and all sorts of stuff', as if just saying that will broaden their appeal(and it's always those 4 subgenres that are mentioned, so everyone ends up saying the same thing to give the illusion that they're all different from each other).

[Opuswerk]

I haven't read the whole thread, so i might be repeating something that was already said.

Before making minimal or being a msuician, I am an architect. In this domain there are also several schools; one of them is minimalism. Some architects think that minimalism is about stripping the spaces of everything, leaving them as bare as possible. Like this by P. Zumthor



Although those spaces have everything to be dramatic, they somehow lack humanity. Being just an expression of materials put rather beautifully (or not) together. Rawness is what that school of minimalism is about. It can also be found in contemporary art, but i'm not expert enough in that field to talk about it .

The second school of minimalism I want to talk about goes about finding the true roots of objects and building elements, hence looking in the subconscious of mankind to extract the true meaning of house. The best example being to ask a kid to draw a house. He'll draw a triangle on top of a square, and then add a door and some windows, but this would be a true minimal design. The thing being to extract the essence of what you are working on and make it stand out at its best, without covering with all the unnecessary froufrou.
A very good architect / artist from that school is Donald Judd :


My point about minimal techno, or music, is that maybe there's 2 things. Those tracks that have been only to expose their elements. Having the best kick, snare, synth, bass which is actually more sound design than composition.
And then there's some other tracks, where all the unnecessary elements have been stripped back in order to bring the musical composition behind the track at its best and not the individual sounds. Which goes more about stripped composition.

So I guess you can be minimal in both ways. I'm definitely more inclined to the second school though. As i find it more musical and less mechanical.

Hope that all made some sense....

[shypht]

I'm starting to think that "minimal" as a genre, and where it's going right now is turning in to a bit of a joke. Allot of the stuff is just starting to sound like progressive, and is starting to lose any sense of energy and dynamics in the sound. Just sort of plodding along, with so many of the tracks sounding similar it's hard to be 'wow'd.

I think minimalism, when used as an approach to producing music of any genre, seems to be far more interesting than "producing minimal' - if that makes any sense at all.

Awhile ago I was flipping through a music magazine and they had an article on 'producing minimalistic drums' (had nothing to do with dance music), and as part of the intro they said something along the lines of "the least amount of elements that can be used to still carry a rhythm/groove in the track"

Generally speaking, I'd say it's more about a stripped down aesthetic, where each element in the track plays an important role to the overall piece. Instead of adding all sorts of flourishes and unneeded elements to move you through the track, it's more an intricate weaving of elements together to push things along.

[maks]

minimal sure isnt what it used to be

here's a perfect example of what "brilliant" "minimal" "micro" techno was in 2000

Komet-Raush

http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=27904

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

I have not read all the comments, only the first few.

I just want to say that the concept/ideal of a minimalism sound bothers me.

The question of posed by the originating source of the thread by is disturbing in it self.

To me minimalism takes take its precedence in its lack of form and therefore it appears in many forms. Any attempt to classify formlessness enters into the real of philosophical debate.

To define the sound of minimalism in electronic music is ignorance. Minimalism is very complex and extends into many facets of existence, Minimalism its just a "sound" or lack thereof. This isn't meant to degrade the individual bringing up the discussion in the least. Bringing the very discussion to the forefront is noteworthy!

A raw sign wave is pure minimalism in itself in its most positive and negative sense.

I wish I could produce a more minimal difinitive as it relates to sound but its not possible.

What makes minimal techno is so deep and true is its relation the very fabric and tenants of sound is too deep to classify.

Truth in sound is the essence of minimal to me.

I wish I could produce truthfulness without having to become complex in my sonic expression.

I think it has something to with truth. How close can you come to truth without distorting it?

*Hmmm... I shouldn't try to intellectualize when I am intoxicated...*

*Added the next day...

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

I really want to expand in this issue. Minimal is ubiquitous.

I could take an artist like Luomo (aka Vladislav Delay)

His music often classified as "house" or whatever. I first discovered him through force tracks back in the day. For some reason something stuck me deeply.

I have tendency toward minimalism and when I hear his music I feel that the self-same source draws me to his production. I think I like the honesty in the often shallow self serving, hurtful subject of his music. In careful analysis its the truth of his works that attracts me the most.

Everything that drives our lives is driven by the same source.

It doesn't matter if you have a certain sound in the least. I have heard tracks that I have felt would sell well and whatever but I feel nothing out of them.

Truth is intrinsically linked to minimalism.

Find that and you will look no further.

unless you are inquisitive