attention fellow producers..... rampant piracy

[dncn]

but , like, stealing is wrong.

[najem::sworb]

---

[MarcAshken]

ok, excuse the length of time its taken to reply to this essay you've left me. The comment i left at the end was a question. I'm unaware if any studies have been done or not, I was asking you if they had because the fact there is no evidence to support claims that downloading effects sales seems to be your only line of defence for stealing (downloading) music.

whether a product is digital or physical doesnt matter because if the people downloading it didn't steal it, and bought it instead, the artsit/label would recieve revenue. I accept that some people might simply go without rather than paying for it, but I expect this isnt a big percentage. I'm not angry about the situation, simply because when i entered this game there was very little money involved, I always knew that as a producer I wouldnt make my fortune from techno. I actually dont mind my stuff goin onto p2p apps once its been released for a few weeks as most of the people that download tracks are either living in a poor economy where they cant afford to buy wax or wouldnt buy it anyway because they've got so used to stealing it that the idea of paying for it would be madness. You say that artists instead of getting angry or trying to educate people about a subject that will never change should spend the time making new recordings or having fun, when the problem we discuss inevitably leads to a loss of time for the artist who is now working in a supermarket tryin to make ends meet.

I agree with what you say about adapting to change and the moral objectors learning to deal with it, wise words. What I dont agree with is someone posting on a board full of producers arguing for the case of downloading when its clearly effecting all of our lives in a negative manner. If you have something constructive to offer us in the way of how we might adapt or attempt to contain this problem please speak up. I suspect however that you, like the rest of us, don't.

[theclockstrucktwelve]

"now obviously some of you don't agree with me, but like it or not, I deliver truth here".

i've been met with is people who think the entire topic can be wrapped up with "stealing is bad" or by throwing a cheap one-liner just to be heard.

speaks fot itself

Yeah. I was right about a bunch of stuff and a couple twits don't like it. This isn't supposed to be a me verses whoever thing. I've been following these sort of issues for years and I merely present the things I know. I'd gladly welcome correction or further information on the matters at hand if it were offered... but "yur......stoooopid..." flavor, 10-year-old forum kiddie posts responding to it have no weight and serve only to fertalize more of the same.

[theclockstrucktwelve]

ok, excuse the length of time its taken to reply to this essay you've left me. The comment i left at the end was a question. I'm unaware if any studies have been done or not, I was asking you if they had because the fact there is no evidence to support claims that downloading effects sales seems to be your only line of defence for stealing (downloading) music.

whether a product is digital or physical doesnt matter because if the people downloading it didn't steal it, and bought it instead, the artsit/label would recieve revenue. I accept that some people might simply go without rather than paying for it, but I expect this isnt a big percentage. I'm not angry about the situation, simply because when i entered this game there was very little money involved, I always knew that as a producer I wouldnt make my fortune from techno. I actually dont mind my stuff goin onto p2p apps once its been released for a few weeks as most of the people that download tracks are either living in a poor economy where they cant afford to buy wax or wouldnt buy it anyway because they've got so used to stealing it that the idea of paying for it would be madness. You say that artists instead of getting angry or trying to educate people about a subject that will never change should spend the time making new recordings or having fun, when the problem we discuss inevitably leads to a loss of time for the artist who is now working in a supermarket tryin to make ends meet.

I agree with what you say about adapting to change and the moral objectors learning to deal with it, wise words. What I dont agree with is someone posting on a board full of producers arguing for the case of downloading when its clearly effecting all of our lives in a negative manner. If you have something constructive to offer us in the way of how we might adapt or attempt to contain this problem please speak up. I suspect however that you, like the rest of us, don't.

yeah, i wrote too much... i'll try not to write a novel here.

but first I need to clarify: this is all seperate from any "defense" of downloading / piracy of music. I'm only talking about the effect it has, not whether it's right or wrong.

The heart of what we're talking about here could be summed up with a question.. "Would the people pirating music purchase the music if they were not able to pirate it?"

That might be a silly way of enveloping it all, as there is always a way, but let's pretend for a moment.

You've admittedly an opinion of your own, that you suspect most people would pay for it if they didn't download it rather than not buying at all. This is the bit i'm talking about when I mention studies and evidence and so forth. This is only a guess, and there's no science behind that guess. Only the hope that people enjoy the music enough that they would continue to want it if it was only available via legitimate record purchase. I don't think we can actually know or measure this. There's also a big difference between converting pirate downloads into digital sales as opposed to purchase of physical product. IE - if a label drove hard at distributors and was smart about their promotion, had a great product / artists/ records to offer and consistantly sold out... then the whole piracy thing is almost completely irrelevent. Maybe this is a little more uphill for some smaller outfits, but sometimes I wonder if people concerned with their goods being pirated put that time into pushing their records, maybe they could sell all their records and not have to worry about being out any significant loss...

A new model needs to be developed. I don't know what that would look like... all I can suggest is that for now, labels need to jump on the digital distribution bandwagon in hopes of offsetting some of the percieved problem. People want things instantly and conveniently. And the rise of places like beatport and other digital distro outlets I think are a great start. Without them, I think many of their users would revert to straight up piracy. It of course is like I said, only part of the solution and it's not nearly comprehensive or advanced enough.. we still need to keep looking forward..

[najem::sworb]

---

[dncn]

ok, excuse the length of time its taken to reply to this essay you've left me. The comment i left at the end was a question. I'm unaware if any studies have been done or not, I was asking you if they had because the fact there is no evidence to support claims that downloading effects sales seems to be your only line of defence for stealing (downloading) music.

whether a product is digital or physical doesnt matter because if the people downloading it didn't steal it, and bought it instead, the artsit/label would recieve revenue. I accept that some people might simply go without rather than paying for it, but I expect this isnt a big percentage. I'm not angry about the situation, simply because when i entered this game there was very little money involved, I always knew that as a producer I wouldnt make my fortune from techno. I actually dont mind my stuff goin onto p2p apps once its been released for a few weeks as most of the people that download tracks are either living in a poor economy where they cant afford to buy wax or wouldnt buy it anyway because they've got so used to stealing it that the idea of paying for it would be madness. You say that artists instead of getting angry or trying to educate people about a subject that will never change should spend the time making new recordings or having fun, when the problem we discuss inevitably leads to a loss of time for the artist who is now working in a supermarket tryin to make ends meet.

I agree with what you say about adapting to change and the moral objectors learning to deal with it, wise words. What I dont agree with is someone posting on a board full of producers arguing for the case of downloading when its clearly effecting all of our lives in a negative manner. If you have something constructive to offer us in the way of how we might adapt or attempt to contain this problem please speak up. I suspect however that you, like the rest of us, don't.

yeah, i wrote too much... i'll try not to write a novel here.

but first I need to clarify: this is all seperate from any "defense" of downloading / piracy of music. I'm only talking about the effect it has, not whether it's right or wrong.

The heart of what we're talking about here could be summed up with a question.. "Would the people pirating music purchase the music if they were not able to pirate it?"

That might be a silly way of enveloping it all, as there is always a way, but let's pretend for a moment.

You've admittedly an opinion of your own, that you suspect most people would pay for it if they didn't download it rather than not buying at all. This is the bit i'm talking about when I mention studies and evidence and so forth. This is only a guess, and there's no science behind that guess. Only the hope that people enjoy the music enough that they would continue to want it if it was only available via legitimate record purchase. I don't think we can actually know or measure this. There's also a big difference between converting pirate downloads into digital sales as opposed to purchase of physical product. IE - if a label drove hard at distributors and was smart about their promotion, had a great product / artists/ records to offer and consistantly sold out... then the whole piracy thing is almost completely irrelevent. Maybe this is a little more uphill for some smaller outfits, but sometimes I wonder if people concerned with their goods being pirated put that time into pushing their records, maybe they could sell all their records and not have to worry about being out any significant loss...

A new model needs to be developed. I don't know what that would look like... all I can suggest is that for now, labels need to jump on the digital distribution bandwagon in hopes of offsetting some of the percieved problem. People want things instantly and conveniently. And the rise of places like beatport and other digital distro outlets I think are a great start. Without them, I think many of their users would revert to straight up piracy. It of course is like I said, only part of the solution and it's not nearly comprehensive or advanced enough.. we still need to keep looking forward..

between you two youve summed it up pretty well there i think.

[theclockstrucktwelve]

. You are so self centered and despising, how could you just understand the word stealing?
I'm sorry for this naive and 10-year-old forum kiddie post.
By the way, are you an artist or label manager or nothing really important like that? i don't think so.

I'm not self-centered. If I was self-centered, i'd say I was better than you and command an army of slaves to write these posts for me that I pay in corn-cobs.

It's apparent that you're not at all able to understand anything i'm saying. I don't think there's anything wrong with how I am saying it, so it's clearly all on you. That doesn't make me self-centered or demeaning or anything... it's just simple fact. Had you understood what I was talking about, you wouldn't bring up "the word stealing" again. This isn't about that, regardless of my opinion about stealing.

By the way, are you an artist or label manager or nothing really important like that? i don't think so.

Firstly, that is irrelevent. I've been involved with the scene in many ways probably for more years than you've even known what music was. But I don't really know. If you think persons have to be qualified in this manner to participate, I can assure you i'm more than qualified.

More importantly: If everyone weighing in on the issue was an artist or label manager, how would that provide an unbiased approach to the issue?