The envelope thread.

[hydrogen]

Discuss.

[hydrogen]

I take advantage of abletons clip editor to draw envelopes on any audio. It's my favorite method to modify sound.

[Toloache]

Use them if you need them, and dont use them if the job is better sorted with something else they are usefull aniway. I use them a lot (not only for volume) to get a groove started in the live view.

[tone-def]

I haven't used envelopes since I went digital. Now I use email.

[AK]

( I said this in the kick thread but prob better here )

I'm wanting to get more into my envelopes, anything other than a fast attack results in the sound being out of sync, esp. with things like percussion ( shakers for example - which have a slow attack by their nature). If I want a thwip before the attack if you get me, on a sound ( like a shaker ), it's a mindfuck to get it to sit with the groove, how are other people doing this ( I'm doing it by turning 'snap-to-grid' off and going by feel )

This is seriously bugging me and I have just never got around to doing it any other way, if someone was using a hardware or analogue sequencer where you don't have access to a function like turning off snap to grid, how the hell are they keeping slow attack sounds in sync?

[steevio]

( I said this in the kick thread but prob better here )

I'm wanting to get more into my envelopes, anything other than a fast attack results in the sound being out of sync, esp. with things like percussion ( shakers for example - which have a slow attack by their nature). If I want a thwip before the attack if you get me, on a sound ( like a shaker ), it's a mindfuck to get it to sit with the groove, how are other people doing this ( I'm doing it by turning 'snap-to-grid' off and going by feel )

This is seriously bugging me and I have just never got around to doing it any other way, if someone was using a hardware or analogue sequencer where you don't have access to a function like turning off snap to grid, how the hell are they keeping slow attack sounds in sync?

thats the best way to do it mate, just by feel. ive always used shakers and other sounds with slow attacks and i just move it into position in the sequencer. i never used to use snap to grid when i was using software, apart from to get a rough groove going, then i would switch it off completely.

with an analogue sequencer in modular there's no problem, you just use a trigger delay on the preceeding trigger or gate. infact ive probably got more trigger delay modules than any other, absolutely essential for funk.
some sequencers have negative delay capability, so you can push the trigger backwards.

[::BLM::]

yeah i work with the snap grid off.

[steevio]

thanks to hydrogen for starting the thread,

i think enevelopes are a bit missunderstood and not used nearly enough especially by beginners.

i have to admit it took me years to get a good grip on how to utilise them properly or even fully understand them.

i really dont know about softsynths as i dont use them, but it took using really good quality analogue EGs (envelope generators) for me to 'feel' what envelopes were actually doing. i know that the envelopes on my Nord lead, which i gained alot of experience on in the years just after i started out, do not feel like 'real' EGs compared to say a Moog.

with the Moog EGs, when you turn up sustain, you actually get real sustain like you would get with a guitar in feedback, it kind of builds and starts to feedback the more you push it. i never experienced that with VAs. this the sort of thing you cant explain to soft synth / VA users, and why its a major advantage of analogue.

its well worth trying to simply see how many different ways you can use two EGs, one modulating the filter and another modulating the volume, which is standard synthesis practice, working on a simple sound, say just one oscillator.

its too easy just to set both EGs with similar settings and leave it at that, but if you experiment with for instance having a shortish release time on the Volume EG and a longer one on the filter, and then the other way round you get completely different effects. if you extend this to experimenting with different gate (note) lengths, and decay and sustain settings you will notice that you'll get lots of different sounds from the same source material.

it really is just worth spending a whole day doing stuff like this, dont try to make a tune, or take it any further, just get a feel for what EGs really do.

it might sound basic to some of you, but it was quite revelatory to me when i began to get that feel. of course it really helps if you have good quality analogue EGs, and not all so called analogue synths have them, they are quite often digital these days. digital EGs usually are more flexible, like choices of slopes etc. but a good analogue synth will have a well tried and tested slope on its EGs, which work in most situations. with a modular you can have even more control, with for instance a knob that will change the slope smoothly between exponential, logarythmic and linear.