Richie´s Setup ...

[miroslav]

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record on this one...

If you're going to go all digital and auto-"in synch" with your mixing, then at least have the balls to do something more with your set than what the traditional DJ did. You have all that advanced technology on your fingertips; I expect to hear and see you doing things you can't do with traditional DJing.

Real DJs should be musicians, and when you're playing out live, it should be a real artistic performance. That means that the risky and spontaneous aspects of human skill MATTER as does their presentation to the listener, NOT just what it sounds like. If you go to a classical concert and the pianist has the computer press the keys for him and ensure the tempo, you don't call it a performance even if it sounds fine. The pianist then has to evolve and elevate the human aspect of his art, else he is basically inching towards redundancy.

That's the paradox that a surprisingly large number of digital DJs seem to not understand and acknowledge these days. If you're just DJing pretty much as you always did with a high-tech, synched-up setup, it's YOU that is becoming obsolete - not the vinyl DJ.

[tettezak]

Real DJs should be musicians, and when you're playing out live, it should be a real artistic performance. That means that the risky and spontaneous aspects of human skill MATTER as does their presentation to the listener, NOT just what it sounds like. If you go to a classical concert and the pianist has the computer press the keys for him and ensure the tempo, you don't call it a performance even if it sounds fine. The pianist then has to evolve and elevate the human aspect of his art, else he is basically inching towards redundancy.

I don't think you can really compare DJ-ing with a piano concert..
As far as presentation goes, what extra visual value do you really get from somone spinning vinyl as opposed to someone playing with a laptop? Someone touching vinyl like Richie said?

That's the paradox that a surprisingly large number of digital DJs seem to not understand and acknowledge these days. If you're just DJing pretty much as you always did with a high-tech, synched-up setup, it's YOU that is becoming obsolete - not the vinyl DJ.

You're just making it the exact same paradox only the other way around imo.. None of both it obsolete, they just do the same thing in a different way.

[miroslav]

I don't think you can really compare DJ-ing with a piano concert..
As far as presentation goes, what extra visual value do you really get from somone spinning vinyl as opposed to someone playing with a laptop? Someone touching vinyl like Richie said?

You can compare it and, in my opinion, you absolutely should. It doesn't matter that you quietly sit on a chair at a concert and dance at the DJ venue. They should both ultimately be a performance. If the DJ is not ultimately delivering a performance, than we should logically reach the point where the DJ is not needed - he or she can just stay home and the computers can deliver all that we need when we go out on a Friday night.

Again, the point is not simply the visual value or the end resulting sound. It's the incorporation of a spontaneous human skill element. And it all depends on how you use that laptop. You can use that technology to regress and be lazy, or to progress and push youself to do something humanly/artistically skillful. People who know the scene and are passionate about it should be able to sense on multiple levels whether it is there - whether you are a performer or a technical steward/implementer on behalf of the technology. It's something that has certain tangible characteristics, but also many intangible ones as well.

[Rochey]

I still very much consider what he does; live, DJing, a performance & interesting.

[tettezak]

You can compare it and, in my opinion, you absolutely should. It doesn't matter that you quietly sit on a chair at a concert and dance at the DJ venue. They should both ultimately be a performance. If the DJ is not ultimately delivering a performance, than we should logically reach the point where the DJ is not needed - he or she can just stay home and the computers can deliver all that we need when we go out on a Friday night.

It does matter people just sit there quietly on a chair. A piano concert is just a whole different concept.
And leaving the DJ at home would be a step too far I think, that's a much bigger difference then vinyl vs digital performance.

Again, the point is not simply the visual value or the end resulting sound. It's the incorporation of a spontaneous human skill element. And it all depends on how you use that laptop. You can use that technology to regress and be lazy, or to progress and push youself to do something humanly/artistically skillful. People who know the scene and are passionate about it should be able to sense on multiple levels whether it is there - whether you are a performer or a technical steward/implementer on behalf of the technology. It's something that has certain tangible characteristics, but also many intangible ones as well.

So basically it comes down to the beatmatching then? Because aside from that I can't really think of a skill that's not needed in both vinyl and digital DJing.

[miroslav]

It does matter people just sit there quietly on a chair. A piano concert is just a whole different concept.
And leaving the DJ at home would be a step too far I think, that's a much bigger difference then vinyl vs digital performance.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on it. I want people to have fun when I play out, but I ultimately want to strive to be a performer, like that concert pianist. To me, if I'm not a performer and just a facilitator, then what I'm doing isn't very important.

So basically it comes down to the beatmatching then? Because aside from that I can't really think of a skill that's not needed in both vinyl and digital DJing.

I'm afraid we may be talking past each other. It's really not about whether you beatmatch or not. All it's about is:

if you take away the beatmatching from the human performance element, add something else. Get more creative with layering and spontaneous (re)mixing - do something you couldn't do before. Else, if you're still just linearly mushing in one track after another like before (which I still surprisingly hear enough people do), then you're just getting your computer to handle more of what you used to do, and you're losing some of your significance in the process.

[JackNine]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on it. I want people to have fun when I play out, but I ultimately want to strive to be a performer, like that concert pianist. To me, if I'm not a performer and just a facilitator, then what I'm doing isn't very important.

No offense dude but like everyone else is saying, a concert pianist and a DJ are two completely different things. One performs composed music live, and one is playing records of pre-recorded material. I admire both for what they bring to the table but don't fool yourself; they bring very different elements. Yes, they both "perform", but that is where the similarity stops.

As a guitarist, drummer and DJ/producer for over 15 years, I can safely say there is nothing similar about playing live instruments versus DJ'ing.

[pizzamon]

You used to have to know how to play piano to play techno.