do we need to go back underground?

[dsat]

i miss the underground sometimes
but underground also means less money for artists, which makes the bigger events more attractive now and then...

the best is to have both, the bigger events for the money and the small events for fun (and for less money lol)

[New Guy]

i just came from the undreground, and man it was packed today. Was very smelly and hot... and the conductor came... and i didnt have a ticket....

sorry, too hot today.

[trak660]

hm...i'm more interested in techno getting more innovative
and experimental. seems like that might help remove some
people so some of you could feel cool again.

that's very right.

very interesting posts here, i was enjoying reading different reflexions...

i think people blame m-nus shouldn't be blamed.
good label or not, good music or not (well, "good music" with 20 records sound the same), they certainely fucked around with "minimal" techno.

hawtin is considered as an "innovator" but using ableton and allen & heath doesn't mean to be innovative. it means just having money to afford it and speaking eglish to understand the manual.
wait a minute, there's people who truly experiment.
himself mentioned vynil doesn't interest him anymore 2 years ago, but it seems that "selling vynil" still interests him a lot.

i remember a m-nus party (of course, totally overcroweded) a year ago.
at that time, i found their "minimize to maximize" slogan pretty cool.
then i've got a flyer from that party says,
"minimize stress maximize fun".

"min2max" was about it??
people can dance to kylie minogue, if people go to club to dance to this kind of cold, and inexpressive music, that means they need something special. and if it's just about "minimize stress and maximize fun",
then i'm fucking off.

i'm from korea, where there's NOTHING. (5 years ago, at least)
when i heard some "underground" stuff and what "seems to be" going on in european electronic music scene, i was dreaming.

if i knew that it was that kind of bullshit that european people call "underground" i had to stay at home. "maximum fun" is in korea too with what they call "night club", the music is not very far form what we hear here.

i'm still hoping to see some real thing.
and i believe that it can still come sooner or later.
i feel that even in this forum,
there's many people who's sick of all like me.
someone posted DIY is only solution, i'm totally agree with it.
if everyone do their own thing without ugly intentions,
i'm 100% sure that there'll be something very soon.

i know that it's almost a crime to say this in this forum,
(maybe they'll kick me out!!)

fck m-nus and fck hawtin.

'sick of their "FUN".

What I meant in my post is that we should beware of offers from the mainstream music industry.
They'll never get it.
A media congomorate would rather sell some famous movie star's kid who does techno than ever think of putting out something innovative or fresh.

Hawtin got to where he is today by the DIY ethic. I would consider M-nus a good example of how well you can do outside the mainstream.

[minimal house]

Mnus parties where im from are almost always balls to the wall. But I would hardly consider them mainstream. In chicago, mnus showcases only attract between 5 and 700 people..in a city of 3 million.

[Measax]

I would like to add some serious insight to a not so serious discussion (because its all bullshit anyway)

Did anyone ever even clearly define underground?

Here is something to think over. Once you are in the underground you aren't underground anymore. You can't be what you are. A simple fact.

Is Hawtin underground? To those who don't understand, yes. To some of you, no.

Is any of this underground? Obviously the answer is, yes and no. So like many of you have said, good is good. But clearly defined by what it is not. Like wise it both is and isn't what it is. Or shortly put itiswhatitis.

So anything is underground until it isn't. Until someone (you) find out about it.

M-nus is good. Minimal is good. This forum is good. This chat is good.

Underground is what you believe it to be. To make my point here is an example. The beatles at some point in their careers were underground. Then they got popular (because they were good) and they lost the whole underground uk rock thing. But, say there was a tribe in South America that collected music but had no exposure to the outsideworld. The just randomly happened upone stuff when outside man came through. Now, one kid gets a beatles tune. The rest don't. He plays it once for a friend. All the other kids are listening to some bullshit gosple album made in texas back in 42. once again, the beatles are underground but at the same time they are not. I mean, where do we put a cap on how many people can like something before its no longer considered ok to be liked? That is just stupid if you ask me.

So, with that said: Like something because you like it. And don't dislike something because it is liked. People are going to have seperate tastes. I love the idea of underground just like I like the idea of minimal but because they are idea, they lack solid lined definitions. Much like the old comment on porn. "I don't know what it is, but I know it when I see it." You can fill in the rest.

[mando]

i found a interesting interview from sound revolt with magda about the "m_nus mafia":

Sound Revolt: Behrouz recently said that “Richie Hawtin and the people he plays with [...] are like mafia: [...] they all go together from one place to another and then they play there together. [...] They’ve never been really interested in what people want to hear, they’ve simply played what they themselves liked”. What’s your comment on that?

Magda: What’s my comment? Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. If that’s how someone feels or perceives me, or Rich, it’s totally fine with me. But I know it’s pretty an egoistical statement. The thing to be a good DJ is working with the crowd well, playing for the crowd, not for myself. I’ve been really learning this through years, so what he says doesn’t really apply.

[Zinthek]

"They’ve never been really interested in what people want to hear, they’ve simply played what they themselves liked"

That's probably why half of the requests section is full of Hawtin and Magda samples.

[thom]

That's why I said in another discussion that they should make their tracklists available to people on their site.

That would only be fair, respectful, to the musicians behind the tracks.