I agree with u darzh, I always seem to find a way to blame Ableton for not being able to produce a " professional sound", or that it is slowing my workflow down, but the reality is that it's my lack of understanding or experience that is the problem!!!! I read a book on live and the author started the book saying" Ableton can do it, you just don't know it yet". I'm gonna try and have faith in this quote and experiment some more. I'd still,however, love to hear opinions from those who have tried them both .
Ableton is the top workflow enviroment until date for me, but when it comes to render I think in the summing process there is nothing compare to pro tools or logic.