Problem: repeatedly subverting/ruining your own ideas

[steevio]

This happens repeatedly, and 2 weeks in, I have a well crafted beat plus 4 basslines, 4 hooks, 4 lots of FX, and so forth. Effectively, 4 different tracks, but not one set of complementary ideas at critical mass. Next of course, I get utterly bored of the whole thing and start all over: rinse, repeat.

Can anyone relate to this particular madness?

i can definitely relate to the madness of not being able to get elements to work together when they sound like they should, and often i'll keep making micro adjustments for weeks till either i give up and run off with my tail between my legs, or get it right and be glad i pushed it to the limit.

but it sounds like you must be getting distracted too easily if you end up with 4 basslines etc. once you've got a major element that you like, you've got to stick with it, and move on to the next one, if you keep changing different things you'll never settle on a working set, the last thing you need is different permutations.
you've got to love that bassline so much, that nothing will ever make you change it.

[tone-def]

my best advice would be to move past the "loop" stage or even skip it entirely,

i never work on a loop anymore, it has very little relevance or connection to how a track will work in its natural state....which is not a loop but a sequence!!

so yeah crack on, write from start to finish,

if theres one thing i do know when you do work in a loop, the elements and ideas you make often are discarded to changed beyond recognition when you start to lay things out.

I wish more people would concentrate more on creating the perfect loop rather then trasitions between segments. Tracks that emphasise transitions and changes seem to me like music that has been constructed to impress druggies. A loop doesn't have to mean 16 or 32 beats.

I think more effort should be directed at the fundamentals. You are on the right track Dusk.

Take a track like Swayzak - Form is Emptyness.

This is one of my favorite tracks of all time. The elements are fairly simple but they work so fcking well together.

I remember the first time I played this for people. It was at a house party and when I was mixing this track in (this = present tense... listening to it now... go buy it for effect.. thank me later) this girl was laying on the floor appearing to be asleep and suddenly she bolted upright and said, "This is an amazing CD!! Who is this?? Whats it called??"

When I informed her that there was no CD and it was just me DJing a record she looked sad because she knew that moment would not happen again.

Wait... I am going off on a trip down memory lane here...

my point is... this is a beautiful track. I loved that track the first time I heard it and have studied it quite a bit since then. It has a singular purpose and perfect intentions. One can tell that it is a purposful declaration of a spectacular state. It is a space created with intention. It is mindful and maticulous. There is great craftsmanship put into the sounds. In some ways it is little more then an overglorified loop but it is so much more then that.

Its perfectly and lovingly constructed.

That is what makes a good track. Not a slapdash sequece of change ups and progressive alterations... If you agree with me or not the fact remains that most minimal music these days is a lot more focused on those short moments created during the change ups and progression then it is the actual state created by the music.

A lot of newer tracks seem to rely on the excitment created when the track switches up from one small section of monotonous sounds to another small section of monotonous sounds. What seems to make a track "good" is the affect that little change up has on the mind... the fact that more often then not the material itself that people are listening is not all that nice/musical/pleasant to listen to just slides by people is bizarre to me...

I think different people are attracted to different things in minimal music. I personal like a track to evolve and tell a story, i like improvised jazz solos and randomness but i also like things really stripped down. I'm not a fan of big breakdowns and build ups, hands in the air type stuff but if every track was just an overglorified loop the night would be a little dull.

[clubfoot]

@ Dusk: I've been there myself. It's definitely a bridge to be crossed, or avoided ideally.

Some tips from my own experience:

Pay more attention to EQing and full frequency representation within your song. I've found myself looking for that elusive extra element (that you know probably doesn't really exist) when it's maybe already there. For instance: bassline sound is maybe great but doesn't have the right sub to go with it. Midrange can get in a right tangle too, so think about which frquencies can be trimmed.
Along with that, gate and sidechaining can be a useful tool when making dance music. It's a good way to get two sounds hangin' out together.
I like to review my drums during the process - sometimes the snare pattern is too full or too sparse.
And, of course, get away from the loop! Create a rudimentary arrangement based on your earliest ideas and start playing at composing sections with your ingredients. Your ideas will flow and you can take what you like and combine it into a strong composition.

If sounds seem like they fit together, they probably do. If the whole sound gets overcooked maybe it just need a little EQ.

Good luck and have some fun - just call it punk if anyone questions the production quality

[Broken]

hehe i think you quoted me, then talked about something i in no way condoned.

but a track is much more than a loop, a loop on its own has no relevance.

its a completely seperate issue that in dance music which has a "repetitive" element (notice i didnt use the word loop as it doesnt it often varys, evolves and sometimes changes outright)

that core element needs to be very good indeed.

I am actually shocked I have been called out for suggesting someone get away from the loop mentality.......but i stand by my previous post as great advice! and the style of music you proposed that comes from this, imho is a complete fallacy and the issues you quite rightly abhore, are based in shortcomings elsewhere in the process.

[steevio]

dusk mate,
you're doing nothing wrong, you've got your whole life to make music.

[Robot Criminal]

if theres one thing i do know when you do work in a loop, the elements and ideas you make often are discarded to changed beyond recognition when you start to lay things out.

+ 1

[Dusk]

Thanks to everybody for the tips - good to know I'm not alone.

[Atheory]

stop being so crazy about tracks. just get on with it.

do u want to work on a track together if that would help?