Great Stuff Records or why youtube gets a worse place for mu

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PsyTox
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Post by PsyTox »

pafufta816 wrote:i've heard arguments for why illegal downloading is hurting labels/artists, but i've yet to see much constructive talk about the situation. marshall mchluhan had many ideas on how forms of media become obsolete, and CD culture, record labels, etc. these are things that are becoming obsolete. and who does it hurt the most? i mean lady gaga probably has her tracks pirated more than mike dehnert. is mike hurting from mp3 blogs? no, the illegal downloaders are generally less willing to spend money, so they won't pay for it if it's not available for free anyway. so the argument that dehnert is loosing money, while slightly true doesn't sum up the reality.

i mean it's the same sh!t that lars ulrich was all hemmrhoiduppity about 10 years ago. nine inch nails and radiohead have found constructive methods for responding to the new media environment. they are exceptions of course, most people aren't world renowned, or can self release music to any notice or profit.

if anything i'd say illegal downloading gave netlabel culture, especially techno/house/electro, quite a boost. as people don't feel that purchasing things online is "real" enough for them. they cannot percieve monetary value in it.
Your argument about netlabels: well, they chose to give their music away or free and that's a good thing if it works for them. But I can surely say that a lot of truely quality musical pieces would never have been possible if f.e. the whole music world would have been 'netlabel' based.
For example: take Phil Spector's famous Wall OF Sound music, where he would often cram 10-20 musicians in a studio and create masterpieces that way that sounded overwhelming. No netlabel could ever cough up the cash to pay for all those musicians and studio time, ever.
In dance, this is also the case: for example the final mastering is vital and prices vary between 45-150 or more per track. No netlabel can afford this.
So you need to sell your music, but everyone is downloading it for free so you can't pay for the mastering and remixer or producer or promotional toopls that make your artist stand out. So your artist does not get the attention, or can't hire a good vocalist to complete his vision, or get live instruments, or buy a new instrument that would open new possibilities for him. Etc etc.
Your arguments show what most pro-illegal download people have: and that's a total lack of seeing the big picture. The demise of 'paid music' is the reason why we are in an era where music is starting to sound more and more stale and formula-based, catering to businesses like ringtone companies or games. Artists don't have the budgets anymore, so they go on tour, and studio time is something they do quick quick in between the next 3 year tour. With the consequence that the tracks are also just stale versions of their hits before or "what will work on a stage".

Radiohead is alsways the example people use, but what you (deliberately) forget to mention is that these guys already made fortunes when CD's were still being sold and due to that following fanbase they can charge a million dollar per show. If you make a million every night, I guess downloads aren't much of an issue. But for a new dance artist in this day and age, who sells 500 copies, seeing half of those sales ( or even 100copies) fall away from illegal downloading is the difference between getting another release or just finding another hobby. I hear fantastic music on Soundcloud every day, and can't even begin to believe how those songs don't make it to the open. The reason is simple: no one dares to risk it anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the music business isn't wrong and not to blame for many of the things that have happened. They were greedy and complacent, true. Big companies might have lost sales, but they make up by touring their big names and from movie deals, games, ringtones etc. Beyonce will not have to worry about being hungry any time soon.
The problem is that the small and real independent labels and artists also suffer from this illegal downloading. They are in it for the love for music, and they don't have the possibilities to seek alternatives. These guys who are in it for the 'right' reasons are the ones that really are taking the beating, and that makes me sad. And that's also why I am against those who are illegally sharing stuff. If I would be getting bookings out of it every week and get paid "a Ricardo-fee", I'd be the first to give away my music for free :lol: . But it would be MY choice. Where as nowadays, there is no choice. And that can never be a good thing.
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Post by jackbrazzo »

good points psytox - but I'll stick by my guns- people wont pay for stuff if its given out free, in the same sentence people will not pay for it if it can be obtained for free.

Value of music has gone down, so its up to I guess all musicians to do it for the love, most will not earn money out of it.

Same goes with porn, an interesting analogy if there was one, which was brought up earlier. I bet there isnt a single person on here that hasnt downloaded some muck from pornhub or the like - should we feel sorry for porn actors now?
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Post by ::BLM:: »

^^ good point. I'm not sure where I stand on the whole pirating music thing. It really fucks me off yes, but then I do it myself within other industries so I can’t really get on my high horse about it. I don’t care about youtube though, I see that as good promotion for me and my label.

Oh Jack regarding your PM. You miss-quoted me! I never said that!
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Post by PsyTox »

jackbrazzo wrote:Same goes with porn, an interesting analogy if there was one, which was brought up earlier. I bet there isnt a single person on here that hasnt downloaded some muck from pornhub or the like - should we feel sorry for porn actors now?
pornhub huh? *taking notes* ;)

I realise that the 'fight' has been lost a long time ago, but hey, I'm an old geezer, only have a few years to go before I will probably have to fold myself. But for now, let me just stick to my guns as well and have false hope that things will get better. :)

To be honest, whether it is payed or not, I'll always continue to make music. And probably will put it online for free as well. I just feel it would be more rewarding if I didn't have to work a 'regular' job and could spend my days in my studio and with my label mates, doing what I really like most. C'est la vie.
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Post by jackbrazzo »

sorry for the misquote- must have been pissed (BLM)
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Post by jackbrazzo »

good links there Chris - kinda bored on the first two sometimes perhaps not easy to understand. Third link was very good and informative.

Out of interest what was the average price for download for "In Rainbows" its a bit of tired example to keep reeling out but its relevant.
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Post by ChrisCV »

nobody really knows how much they made on in rainbows as they keep those figures secret for whatever reason...

that FT article says 62% of downloaders paid nothing...

a survey reckoned the average price was £4... but that was a survey so people could have lied...
but they did make a ton on the box set that was distributed via labels..
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