like whales?

[Salomo]

yes i read the article. i'm curious to know how this makes a dolphin brain more evolved and complex than the human brain. look around us...it is no secret that humans dominate this planet, for better and for worse

whther we dominate the planet is of no signficance. It's a meaningless fact really. We evolved hands and weapons and greed faster than any other species?

Whther the research makes a dolphin more complex or evolved, I dunno,but to me it seems absolutely magnificent. Most human communication isn't that far away from grunting, and most of our activity isn't that far away from how apes operate.

Sure, we've chanced across some very interesting technnology, and the ability to preserve and further knowledge, but our limitations are much much bigger than we think.

i believe the limitation is turned on as soon as we learn language. i think baby's are smarter than many people think for instance, and closer to the path we're ought to follow. i think the full potential of the human brain has yet to be unleashed. i think there lie possibilities for us to in telepathic communication (even though it is put away by mainstream scientists as nonsense). as for whales, they are a bit like elephants in my opinion, elephants too are very sensitive and social, luckily they aren't hunted in large numbers. you are right humans are not that advanced, just safe here on our planet, leaving it makes us reveal how small we are.

[oblioblioblio]

if the whales are so clever why can't they figure out ways to escape the hunters?

i'm against whale hunting but i don't believe that there more intelligent than us.

cos they draw the short straw with DNA and lifestyle.

They can only live in the ocean and they're sitting ducks to hunters when they migrate to breed or feed.

In the article I posted (which references work by John Lilly... he's a fucking interesting character himself), it says about how killer whales transmitted images to their friends via sonar which contained a virtual reality playback of their friend being harpooned.


I mean obviously, it's never gonna be easy to work out the best thing to do. Life is always gonna be a jungle, the're always gonna be some rogue element, and good things hapenning and bad things happening (e.g. killer whales are pretty brutal killers themselves... in a documatary on BBC they followed a whale mother and her calf halfway across the world trying to kill the calf, and when the mother had no choice but to leave her calf for dead they ate the tongue and left the rest). But I do kinda feel that some balance, and some vision, is necessary, otherwise the world is gonna be a shitty place.

[infernal.techno]

yes i read the article. i'm curious to know how this makes a dolphin brain more evolved and complex than the human brain. look around us...it is no secret that humans dominate this planet, for better and for worse

whther we dominate the planet is of no signficance. It's a meaningless fact really. We evolved hands and weapons and greed faster than any other species?

Whther the research makes a dolphin more complex or evolved, I dunno,but to me it seems absolutely magnificent. Most human communication isn't that far away from grunting, and most of our activity isn't that far away from how apes operate.

Sure, we've chanced across some very interesting technnology, and the ability to preserve and further knowledge, but our limitations are much much bigger than we think.

i find the article refreshingly fascinating but come on...really? you say most human communication isn't that far away from grunting. i disagree. sorry, maybe there is a whole generation of people who don't want to think for themselves, relying heavily upon television and mainstream media/music to get their intake. i think you are significantly downplaying the complexity of the human brain, though. i know it's always interesting to learn about the evolution of animals and how animal minds operate, but

let me know when a dolphin or whale can use his/her virtual reality communication to write html code for a website, much less flop out of water and use a computer at all. then we can start to talk about the scientific advancements of humans in the last 50 years (like the article you just read) versus the scientific advancements that other animals on this planet have made. none. you won't find articles written by other animals. you know why? because they aren't smart enough to formulate ideas in their heads and translate them to a tangible surface without the assistance of humans. sorry. it's just the way things are.

[oblioblioblio]

i believe the limitation is turned on as soon as we learn language. i think baby's are smarter than many people think for instance, and closer to the path we're ought to follow. i think the full potential of the human brain has yet to be unleashed. i think there lie possibilities for us to in telepathic communication (even though it is put away by mainstream scientists as nonsense). as for whales, they are a bit like elephants in my opinion, elephants too are very sensitive and social, luckily they aren't hunted in large numbers. you are right humans are not that advanced, just safe here on our planet, leaving it makes us reveal how small we are.

Yeah I think humans definitely have potential, and that there are lots of things which keep us from that knowledge. You;re right that the infants view of the world is often a lot more interesting than the adult with totally rigid views.

Elephants are interesting as well. Definitely social, and plenty of character. Interesting ways to communicate as well, with sub bass received through the legs I think?

I am totally fascinated by what kind of intelligence these advanced sea creatures have, it's a shame that more research hasn't been done. I mean in lots of ways they commicate using forms of telepathy already? That totally nonverbal kind of sonar which transmits images?

[Themis]

tone-def .. no one says dolphins are more intelligent.

and im hearing the "cause we are more intelligent .. " argument here.
but if you think about it that argument has serious consequences

someone could use this argument against you, if someone is more intelligent he could do with you what he wants ..

you do the same thing as the nazis, they believed the german race is superior to all the others
you believe humans are superior to all other species

they believed it was cause they all had blond hair and blue eyes
you believe its cause we are so smart and can talk

i would love to see your argument when aliens which are more intelligent than we are visit earth.
maybe all of a sudden intelligence is not anymore the important attribute for you

[oblioblioblio]

i find the article refreshingly fascinating but come on...really? you say most human communication isn't that far away from grunting. i disagree. sorry, maybe there is a whole generation of people who don't want to think for themselves, relying heavily upon television and mainstream media/music to get their intake. i think you are significantly downplaying the complexity of the human brain, though. i know it's always interesting to learn about the evolution of animals and how animal minds operate, but

let me know when a dolphin or whale can use his/her virtual reality communication to write html code for a website, much less flop out of water and use a computer at all. then we can start to talk about the scientific advancements of humans in the last 50 years (like the article you just read) versus the scientific advancements that other animals on this planet have made. none. you won't find articles written by other animals. you know why? because they aren't smart enough to formulate ideas in their heads and translate them to a tangible surface without the assistance of humans. sorry. it's just the way things are.

ok I was being a bit extreme, and you're right, that even though there is much human activity that sin't that far away from primates, there is a lot of very interesting work being done.

I will definitely stand by the point that we are extremely arrogant as a species. Lots of these advancements have come from chance.

And I do think that just becuase some animal intelligence lies outside of what we understand, it doens't mean that it's not there and is automatically inferior. There are lots of ways that almost evey animal has something extremely interesting goin on in thier bodies/minds. Like pigeons... you wouldn't really expect it from the outside, but they have some incredible geophyiscal location techniques gonig on. Bats hunting with ultrasound?

[Themis]

you all dont get, that if you have or dont have a defined level of intelligence is no argument for anything ..

[infernal.techno]

Nobody is saying in this thread that we should do away with animals less intelligent than humans.

It was, however, suggested that these animals (such as dolphins or whales) have rights because of their intelligence, hence this thread. Where are the petitions for chickens, cows, etc? Animals specifically bred for food consumption?

By the way, there is plenty of science dedicated to the understanding of how sea creatures live. Marine biology?