LIBYA !!

[patrick bateman]

lots of voices who are against the war have good reasons too but imo the alternative (watching this dumb psycho gaddaffi using the weapons the western world sold him for killing civilists who bravely stood up for western values as a consequence of recent movements in those arabic countries) is highly inadmissible..

Is it a goal that all muslim countries turn opposite and start a movement towards western values?

patrick, free choice ist not a western value its a human right !

in all this muslim countries never happend a fair voting process - so you cant even know what the people there want.

what (i hope) we fight for is, that there is a CHOICE for those people.

And to BLM, no offense to you friends, but how do they know what the majority thinks if they never had a free fair votes in their country?

if Lybia had a fair voting process, and voted to have a mass murder as their leader - i would condemn all actions against lybia but thats not the case ha?

No reason to come against me. I was merely asking a question, because I read the post as if the goal is to make all muslim countries western. Is that really the goal, or was it just a typo?

[patrick bateman]

or just google lockerbie..

google?
lockerbie?

[roland]

No reason to come against me. I was merely asking a question, because I read the post as if the goal is to make all muslim countries western. Is that really the goal, or was it just a typo?

ah sry, i misunderstood your post.. i thought you brought the argument that the new regime will be a theocratic muslim regime which is gonna campaign against the western world and values..

i agree with themis i do not care which values they'll move towards as long as they can freely choose to do so.. which means free elections.. imagine in saudi arabia rules a kingly family like hundreds of years ago in europe and by buying their oil and selling weapons especially the u.s. backs this current situation.. a revolution their is impossible people are like prisoners (especially women).. if 10 people stand in front of the kings castle with a sign they face death sentence.. that's sick..

[patrick bateman]

No reason to come against me. I was merely asking a question, because I read the post as if the goal is to make all muslim countries western. Is that really the goal, or was it just a typo?

ah sry, i misunderstood your post.. i thought you brought the argument that the new regime will be a theocratic muslim regime which is gonna campaign against the western world and values..

i agree with themis i do not care which values they'll move towards as long as they can freely choose to do so.. which means free elections..

Fair enough

[Themis]

was not "against" you, no offense

i know there are media and people who argue that the west is forcing their values onto the muslim world.

and maybe this is true in some cases, im with you on that.

but all these arguments, that people in the muslim world like it the way it is, are just lies. cause all you know is what their leaders say about what the people want - and here it comes !

The leaders are not elected freely !

so they dont represent the people in these countries. dont ever forget that.
if the people in the muslim world dont want anything to do with the west, they should have the possibility to vote someone who represents these ideas.

but they cant !

so thats a fundamental problem, not only for them, also for us. Cause they cant raise their voice.

[::BLM::]

And to BLM, no offense to you friends, but how do they know what the majority thinks if they never had a free fair votes in their country?

Yeah cool ill go back and tell my Libyan friends they don't know what they are talking about.

Look I also have friends in Algeria and they are saying to me people are trying to cross the boarder so it must be messed up there.

I haven't been following the last 2 days. Has the Arab Leagues got involved yet? They said they would and last time I watched they hadn't.

[Phase Ghost]

what about the twin towers? I have so many mates that believe it was the us government that did it.

You're mates are fucked in the head dude. They probably think Tony Blair blew up the the Underground in London too.

The fact that the US is consistently involved in violence overseas is not something people in America are proud of. I've had friends in the military that have done tours in Iraq. 100% are glad it's behind them. I don't know what the media around the globe is promoting, but Americans want peace more than anything.

My girlfriend's cousin went to Iraq just out of high school. The guy was just a kid when he went. When he came back over the holidays, the guys fuckin brain was melted. The guy's poor Mother doesn't know what to do with herself. It's a sad situation that keeps on happening over and over. No one is in favor of their kids getting shipped into battle. No one.

Personally, I'd prefer if the US wasn't involved in anything in Libya, Afghanistan or any of this sh!t at all. But, my opinion doesn't exactly matter in the grand scheme of things.

sh!t is fucked up all over the world. A guy like Gadafi or the cocksucker in Egypt collecting billions while it's people suffer is bullshit. Same thing with the people on Wall Street or politicians who rip off middle class people every day in the US. It sucks.

I do feel that these coutries deserve a democratic country and the chance to elect their leaders. I can't and won't believe that the people of Libya want a dictator to rule them.

[PsyTox]

I haven't been following the last 2 days. Has the Arab Leagues got involved yet? They said they would and last time I watched they hadn't.

isn't that always the case? The arab world talks a lot, but never acts. They will destroy Israel. They will kill Khadaffi. They will sort out the issues themselves. But in the end, they just do nothing and go back to wasting the wealth of their countries for covering Veyrons in diamonds and gold and other idiotic stuff. Meanwhile, the people starve, the jobs are non-existent and the well-educated youngsters have nowhere to go with their knowledge.
The real problem is the government in those countries that abuses religion to keep the people down and swim in enormous pools of oil money.

I think we in the west look down upon the Middle East as a bunch of islamic savages, but 95% of the arabs are just the same as we are: they want to work, live good and they want to have a saying in the way their country is run. The roots of their religion is intertwined with Catholic and Jewish beliefs so much that it's just madness that these religions fight eachother. The arabic world in general is a fantastic piece of the world, the cradle of modern civilisation and the most hospitable and nice people you will meet. Too bad the minority of fundamentalist nutters are giving the majority of arabian world such a bad name.

And to be honest: I don't think the people want a western form of government, because frankly, our government sucks donkeyballs just as much. We are run by corporation puppets and media tycoons who give us a vague sense that we are free. Which is bullshit, we are not free at all, and we don't have free speech, because governments don't listen to the people. They listen to money. That's why we are stuck with a European union that wants to cut down wages to the level of mcdonalds or walmart, raise energy prices, and cut down on social benefits and public service and open our borders to an influx of (cheap labor) immigrants. No one in Europe wanted that, but the big corporations did want it, so it happened and no one listened to the 'little man'. At this moment, there is a summit in Brussels where the big shots are determining how they can steal more money from the citizens pockets to make up for the banks' losses and bonusses.

That goes for the USA too btw. I met a lot of amaericans in the past three years and it struck me everytime how nice and open these people are and they usually don't want to have wars and sh!t. But when you hear about the US in Europe, the only thing you hear is about wars and 'foreign policy'. Is that the American people talking, or just that slice of super-rich weapon producing corporations and political nutbags? I'm sure that it's the people in power, but not at all the general public in the US. But they get fucked just as we get lied to. It's sickening.