Working with an engineer

[mick finesse]

A DJ is not a talented musician. 99% of DJ's are wankers, especially today

didnt like this comment - I have know quite a few and very few of them have been 'wankers' - sweeping statement perhaps?

You can't sneeze sideways without hitting a dj today. Based on simple mathematics that 1% leaves about 5,000 dj's

Even in the days of records you'd have loads of DJ's that would play the same set week in, week out and buy maybe one or two new records every 3 months. And not because they couldn't afford it, but because they didn't want to break their anthem formula.

I stand by my statement. Nearly every DJ believes they deserve to play the headline slot at every gig. They think that their musical tastes are superior and they command attention regardless of their ability.

I'd even go so far as to say 99% of DJ's right now couldn't play a proper warm-up set if their lives depended on it. A sign of a DJs talent to me is their ability to play a time slot in proper fashion. But that's a whole other argument innit

In all of your arguments you are so in love with your own opinion that you have convinced yourself that is it right.
You are making a laughing stock of yourself right now with comments like that.
It's cool to have a discussion on here but you argue like a teenager who thinks they are always right and that is not for me.

Cool story bro. You go be successful with your paint-by-numbers productions. Call me when you write a hit single.

edit: You know that was a fucked up thing to say and I apologize. I really and truly wish anyone that endeavors in writing music the best and hope for their success. I stand by my opinions ( who doesn't like their own opinion? ), but I really encourage you to try your own hand at production, even if you have to take baby steps. Cheers.

[mick finesse]

By the by, personal attacks because you can't come up with a proper rebuttal? You stay classy iainkerr7.

[wax works]

By the by, personal attacks because you can't come up with a proper rebuttal? You stay classy iainkerr7.

It has nothing to do with a proper rebuttal, how can I possibly continue a conversation when 99% of DJs are arseholes and all producers who haven't done the whole thing on their own frauds?

I think my point was valid though, maybe I could have put it better but I was pissed - sorry again, don't mean to be a dck.

As for the music by numbers - I have absolutely no interest in a hit single or getting everything done for me, I was just curious about this process as it is something that is rarely talked about in detail and not many producers are open to it.

[wax works]

Sorry if I caused any offence.

[ChrisCV]

ok here's my last pop at this...

ChrisCV your argument is really nothing more than idealistic meandering over rigid intellectual posturing. Sad thing for you is you decided on architecture as an analogy which bounces off my wifes personal experience, better luck time!

it maybe idealistic, but i still think its possible.. i mean even if you're a pretty bad you would still understand song structures at least... its quite important to dj'ing... also the technical speak the dj would at least know some of it... i mean you're always talking to other djs about tracks, and you're bound to use known descriptive words for the track..

So if you get a good communicator, an articulate person with some strong ideas coupled with an engineer who isn't closed off and can understand and translate into music language.. then i think it is possible for that team to come up with a decent track... maybe even something groundbreaking...

Sorry bro, your architect analogy still doesn't float. My wife went to RISD for architecture. She is an architect. What you're telling me is that someone who likes architecture and can make nice architectural collages can without technical training relay to contractors and engineers how to design a building. Not only in function but artistic form. Analogy is still extremely absurd. Same thing goes for music.

I'll give you the architecture thing... i was just trying to be simplistic of the process...
However still trudging this analogy along... we can go to an earlier stage of the process... That is the relationship between the client and the architect... probably more so on the house building scale...

in this realm, you often get people that have no formal understanding of architecture or structural engineering... yet these people direct and instruct their architect what kind of house they want... they describe to the architect what kind of house they would like, giving him their ideas, they use examples of things they've seen before, also things they would like to see, maybe new approaches that have never been thought of.... The architect then comes back with designs, feedback and they work together to flesh out a design, with the architect advising...

sometimes people really fck it up and they get a sh!t house... but if the people know what they want, have good ideas and the architect can understand and translate that, then they often end up with a good, maybe even forward thinking house...that i know for a fact as i've watched hours upon hours of grand designs!!! Its a UK TV Show for those that don't know

so why can't a DJ and sound engineer have this kind of process too...? like i said i think its possible.. i think you give too little credit for what most DJs know...99% of DJs being clueless i think is an exaggeration.. like i said before as long as you've got a good ear for music, you're articulate and know what you want i reckon it can and would work... a DJ could use examples from other songs or genres, like a client with an architect would do... i mean that already happens between producers going, you know that sound on that track, i want that, but i want it bigger, etc etc..

I think the real issue here is our image of the DJ going into a studio to work with an engineer...

you clearly think most if not all DJs don't have a clue... don't know their melodies from a bassline... don't understand EQs, keys, etc etc...

whereas i believe that a half decent DJ should and does know enough to describe a track along with referencing other music, since they are a DJ they should have heard a bit...

i mean coming back to the michael jackson example... michael wasn't a trained musician... he couldn't read music, he didn't know music theory.... he just knew a good song.. he just knew what he wanted, and was articulate enough to work with people who could help him translate his ideas... he had an ear for music.... Michael Jackson probably didn't even know what you knew music production wise... but he still churned out some brilliant tracks... Why can't a DJ do the same?? if a DJ really knew what they wanted, had an ear for music, and was articulate enough, what's to stop them? you can't say that because you're a DJ you have no ear for music...

musical talent doesn't necessarily mean knowing the technical details... its about the feeling it induces...

And just like you have to pay your dues in the DJ industry, you have to pay your dues in the production industry. Shortcuts are for the undeserving.

where does this notion of paying your dues come from?? you do what you do for you... the best you can... why does it have to get approval from everyone else...

[dyte]

you can get a home studio for a lot less than £1500. i guess you have a computer already?

software - Record & Reason Duo £299
monitors - Yamaha HS50M pair £220
interface - M-Audio ProFire 610 £246

this isn't the cheapest option but it's got enough quality to last you a long time.

This, quality advice.

You could go for a cheaper interface and just reason (tho you don't save that much on not getting record) if you're not planning on recording any external sources.

If you want to do it really cheaply, go for Reaper as the host ($60) and freeware instruments and effects (instead of reason). Pick up a Computer Music, it has a load of good freeware on the DVD.

Also sign up to KVR, amazing place for information on vsts, techniques and has an active market place where you can pick up stuff on the cheap.

After that, it's all about sticking with it and putting in the hours.

[jackbrazzo]

M-Audio ProFire 610 £246

what does this do just looks like an enhanced USB device. Better Sound?

[tone-def]

you can get a home studio for a lot less than £1500. i guess you have a computer already?

software - Record & Reason Duo £299
monitors - Yamaha HS50M pair £220
interface - M-Audio ProFire 610 £246

this isn't the cheapest option but it's got enough quality to last you a long time.

This, quality advice.

You could go for a cheaper interface and just reason (tho you don't save that much on not getting record) if you're not planning on recording any external sources.

If you want to do it really cheaply, go for Reaper as the host ($60) and freeware instruments and effects (instead of reason). Pick up a Computer Music, it has a load of good freeware on the DVD.

Also sign up to KVR, amazing place for information on vsts, techniques and has an active market place where you can pick up stuff on the cheap.

After that, it's all about sticking with it and putting in the hours.

Record is good because it has a decent EQ section on the mixer. i find with Reason alone you miss out on one of the most important tools in production.

i tried Reaper and on paper it looks really good but it wasn't very enjoyable to use. it's probably my least favorite DAW i've tried and i've used most of them.