How to create space in a mix

[hydrogen]

search for binaural

how does low-frequency phase interference patterns create space? from my impression binaural beats are merely a psychoacoustic illusion that creates a third sound that is the difference of two other identical signals ms out of phase. Listening to these does not place them anywhere in 3d differently as much as some funky vibrational things goin on. Care to expand?

get headphones, close your eyes,and listen to the binaural haircut. may help with the understanding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

[steevio]

all the clever panning and 3D stuff doesnt work if you've got a whole lot of clashing muddy frequencies.

my advice would be to spectrum analyse absolutely all the parts of your track, make a table of frequencies, and look for conflicts.
you'll be supprised at how much action there'll be in the sub 400 Hz area, if you have say more than two parts with a fairly dominant spike at around the same frequency, try changing the notes of the parts or use HP filter on some parts and spread the spectrum out.

as a rule of thumb, always assume that the fundamental frequency of almost any sound is a lot lower than you think it is, ( this is from my own experience, its not something i've ever read about, so it maybe it wont apply to you )
eg mid range sounds which you might think are in the 500 - 800 Hz area, probably have a fundamental in the high bass 150 - 250 Hz or low mid zones, but when you're cleaning up your bass end, you're probably only listening to the bass sounds.

unless you've got perfect pitch, or you've trained you're ear specifically, you probably only have a vague idea what specific frequencies sound like.

training your ears to recognise frequencies to within 1/3 of an octave will be invaluable to your music career.

[Roqqert]

I dont use binaural. I only use verbs, eq, compression, delays and chorus for wider mix. Stuff with high cuts sound really fareaway. And if you give that nice long verb thats mono, youll experience much more distance.

You can also make a strange stereowidth with eq'ing L & R differently from a synth or something like that.

[Lord_Iron]

Thanks for all the replies !!

I'm currently trying a few of the tips here, but it's damn hard. I mostly achieve placing the elements of the mix at their right place, however it seems more as if they're in a room rather than creating that room. Will keep at it either way

The more i search for it, the more it seems that sounds need somehow to be pissing all over the place without eating the others headroom, so as to feel the more natural as possible. Hard equing doesn't seem to help as it sterilizes the sounds more than help them "expand", if that makes sense.

Might also try and use another reverb than live built-in, as its a bit too digital I feel.

It's going to be really hard to compete with the pop artists who have access to equipment that is worth millions, as well as up to date fx, analog mastering gear, engineers mixer that have 20-30 years of experience... I have a lot of respect for people like Britney's assistants for the sonic world they build.

During Mutek, Pole was giving a workshop about mastering and said a few things that is meant to be share:
1- make sure frequencies are not overlapped
2- less sound for more impact
3- EQing is magic.

What does mean "less sound for more impact"?

[oblioblioblio]

my advice would be to spectrum analyse absolutely all the parts of your track, make a table of frequencies, and look for conflicts.
you'll be supprised at how much action there'll be in the sub 400 Hz area, if you have say more than two parts with a fairly dominant spike at around the same frequency, try changing the notes of the parts or use HP filter on some parts and spread the spectrum out.

as a rule of thumb, always assume that the fundamental frequency of almost any sound is a lot lower than you think it is, ( this is from my own experience, its not something i've ever read about, so it maybe it wont apply to you )
eg mid range sounds which you might think are in the 500 - 800 Hz area, probably have a fundamental in the high bass 150 - 250 Hz or low mid zones, but when you're cleaning up your bass end, you're probably only listening to the bass sounds.

I would agree with this. Some sounds are really 'messy' and have all sorts of frequencies that you didn't want specifically from the sound.

FM I found especially bad. But unfortunately filtering too much can change the tone or impact. It's a delicate balancing act I guess. (in some software synths you can have lots of options for filtering..sometimes you can use a high pass or low pass filter that is controlled by an envelope on the synth... you can sometimes have ncier control over sounds with this than using a regular eq)

I also had some nice results from heavily boosting a certain area on the master with an eq and listening back then.

Clashes and other nasty bits will jump out.

[livecollective]

Thanks for all the replies !!

I'm currently trying a few of the tips here, but it's damn hard. I mostly achieve placing the elements of the mix at their right place, however it seems more as if they're in a room rather than creating that room. Will keep at it either way

The more i search for it, the more it seems that sounds need somehow to be pissing all over the place without eating the others headroom, so as to feel the more natural as possible. Hard equing doesn't seem to help as it sterilizes the sounds more than help them "expand", if that makes sense.

Might also try and use another reverb than live built-in, as its a bit too digital I feel.

It's going to be really hard to compete with the pop artists who have access to equipment that is worth millions, as well as up to date fx, analog mastering gear, engineers mixer that have 20-30 years of experience... I have a lot of respect for people like Britney's assistants for the sonic world they build.

During Mutek, Pole was giving a workshop about mastering and said a few things that is meant to be share:
1- make sure frequencies are not overlapped
2- less sound for more impact
3- EQing is magic.

What does mean "less sound for more impact"?

simply put pole meant (i was there as well), its better to take down certain sounds to boost the percieved loudness of others. He also talked about ducking regions just above the freq you want to boost and it will make it sound more present (more impact).

In other words, pushing sounds louder won't make the impact more present, it will cause problems. The impact comes from the balance of frequencies.

All in all he was talking about proper gain staging and some clever eq tricks.

[wokends]

wow, amazing video
i think, if you wanna recreate a real space you only need take care about reverbation and frecuency. try to study the doppler shift/effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect
you can reach it with the properly eq. and about the reverbs... i dont know, some people dosn't like the digital ones, if you're one of them, try to record some stuff with your mic with the properly location of each element. maybe this help you, btw, amazing thread.

edit: and obviously panning