you are horribly wrong.Ronny Pries wrote: the two most important and ever used things to make a solid kick in dance music history are EQ and compression.
Period.
deep and solid kickdrum
Why?s.k. wrote:you are horribly wrong.Ronny Pries wrote: the two most important and ever used things to make a solid kick in dance music history are EQ and compression.
Period.
Simply saying you are wrong without offering any input as to why you disagree to that is very odd.
I could name tons of tracks where the kick has come right off a 909 with simple EQ and compression and it's awesome - so how can it possibly be wrong?
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a) the 808/909 kicks are being synthesized by the machine in real time. in both the machines' circuits there is no compression or EQ taking place. yet they sound good on their own.
b) about compression: it adds only odd harmonics to the signal, thus giving it a softsquare type form, the intensity depending on the comp settings. note that compression does not add any other harmonics than odd ones, and it adds all odd ones, otherwise it will not boost the signal symmetrically. why so is not the topic here, but this is how compression algorythm operates.
but if you know anything about waveforms... you will know that the best kicks out there have the most complex shape, containing a considerable ammount of overtones that are even not harmonics. these overtones (especially in that first few milliseconds) are what distorts the waveform giving it punch/character/identity. intense amount of overtones/harmonics can achieve musical compression, with a number of variations that borders with infinity. hence a compressor is the dumbest ever way to add character to a sound - it always sounds the same. and too - what are you going to compress in an 808/909? they are pretty even waves, no sudden peaks to limit... or you want to overdrive the 808sine-tail or the already driven 909tail?... compressing the 808start will not add the few fundamental frequency cycles missing to make it tight enough, they are not there in the first place. or you just want to limit the mofo so it slams more right,... but have you seen a real good kick drum with a limited waveform?
c) the 808/909 kicks were invented by people. that means other people can do it too. and lots actually do. using nothing but software, and almost the same basic synthesis algorithm, because its what works. thats the reason alot of good kicks sound like they are an 808, but "somehow better", because the 808 is a bit weak. but comparing the waveforms will quickly show they are different, and no compressor/EQ can do that. EQ? im not even gonna go there...
and a final d) can anybody tell me which drum machine/compressor/EQ with what settings can produce a kick like either which one of the following artists: Ricardo Villalobos, Luciano, Thomas Melchior, Bruno Pronsato, Half Hawaii, Audio Werner, Tobias Freund, Lawrence, Efdemin, Pantytec, Digitaline, Cabanne, Daze Maxim, Miss Fitz, Arnaud Le Texier, Seuil, just to name a freaking few???
keep dreaming its as easy as inserting a compressor.
b) about compression: it adds only odd harmonics to the signal, thus giving it a softsquare type form, the intensity depending on the comp settings. note that compression does not add any other harmonics than odd ones, and it adds all odd ones, otherwise it will not boost the signal symmetrically. why so is not the topic here, but this is how compression algorythm operates.
but if you know anything about waveforms... you will know that the best kicks out there have the most complex shape, containing a considerable ammount of overtones that are even not harmonics. these overtones (especially in that first few milliseconds) are what distorts the waveform giving it punch/character/identity. intense amount of overtones/harmonics can achieve musical compression, with a number of variations that borders with infinity. hence a compressor is the dumbest ever way to add character to a sound - it always sounds the same. and too - what are you going to compress in an 808/909? they are pretty even waves, no sudden peaks to limit... or you want to overdrive the 808sine-tail or the already driven 909tail?... compressing the 808start will not add the few fundamental frequency cycles missing to make it tight enough, they are not there in the first place. or you just want to limit the mofo so it slams more right,... but have you seen a real good kick drum with a limited waveform?
c) the 808/909 kicks were invented by people. that means other people can do it too. and lots actually do. using nothing but software, and almost the same basic synthesis algorithm, because its what works. thats the reason alot of good kicks sound like they are an 808, but "somehow better", because the 808 is a bit weak. but comparing the waveforms will quickly show they are different, and no compressor/EQ can do that. EQ? im not even gonna go there...
and a final d) can anybody tell me which drum machine/compressor/EQ with what settings can produce a kick like either which one of the following artists: Ricardo Villalobos, Luciano, Thomas Melchior, Bruno Pronsato, Half Hawaii, Audio Werner, Tobias Freund, Lawrence, Efdemin, Pantytec, Digitaline, Cabanne, Daze Maxim, Miss Fitz, Arnaud Le Texier, Seuil, just to name a freaking few???
keep dreaming its as easy as inserting a compressor.
^^^^
i've been using a TR909 for kick drum for a long time now, and ive never found that compression and EQ made it sound any better, and i've probably tried using at least 5 or 6 different hardware compressors over the years.
if anything i've found that the thump from the 909 kick which famously hits you in the chest through a big system, often needs to be suplimented by a sine wave if you want a deep sounding kick, and you want to tune it to the track, so i suppose thats expansion not compression.
eq'ing - notching out the low mids and boosting around 2.5K will give you more 'in yer faceness' at the expense of fatness, but IMO you'd be better off using a different kick if you want that effect, as it kills the 909's character.
lets face it roland got it right with those kicks, thats why theyve dominated electronic dance music for 20 years.
i've been using a TR909 for kick drum for a long time now, and ive never found that compression and EQ made it sound any better, and i've probably tried using at least 5 or 6 different hardware compressors over the years.
if anything i've found that the thump from the 909 kick which famously hits you in the chest through a big system, often needs to be suplimented by a sine wave if you want a deep sounding kick, and you want to tune it to the track, so i suppose thats expansion not compression.
eq'ing - notching out the low mids and boosting around 2.5K will give you more 'in yer faceness' at the expense of fatness, but IMO you'd be better off using a different kick if you want that effect, as it kills the 909's character.
lets face it roland got it right with those kicks, thats why theyve dominated electronic dance music for 20 years.