The whole point is, digital has a much lower noise floor but also a much lower (unwanted) distortion level than analogue...hydrogen wrote:so... how do you make sure your pushing the limits of your mix if you aren't running close to 0db?
as minimaltechnohouse said. in a 24Bit(and above) world you can stay way below 0dB without losing anything. if you want things "hotter" or less clean, go for saturation plugins. (find the one that's satisfying - some may sound thin or digital) it will help achieving a thick, dense and warmer sound.hydrogen wrote:awesome... nice tips... but then what about the guys that do ITB?steevio wrote:do you mean with an analogue desk or ITB ?hydrogen wrote:so... how do you make sure your pushing the limits of your mix if you aren't running close to 0db?
with analogue you can happily go above 0 db at any point in the chain. i'm quite often pushing into clipping on the individual channels which need fattening, but i usually keep the entire mix at 0db on the master, if i want to saturate the whole mix, i would do that in the EQ by overdriving the tubes. but theres nothing to stop you driving the lines, the busses and the master if you want to, but it can easily start to get mushy.
alot depends on your desk and the quality of the op amps.
i had a mackie which was great for extremely overdriving kicks and percussion, the soundcraft ghost i have now is more subtle, every desk is so different.
And 24bit is only when recording, most (if not all?) DAW's run 24bit+ for all internal processing anywaymiro pajic wrote:as minimaltechnohouse said. in a 24Bit(and above) world you can stay way below 0dB without losing anything. if you want things "hotter" or less clean, go for saturation plugins. (find the one that's satisfying - some may sound thin or digital) it will help achieving a thick, dense and warmer sound.hydrogen wrote:awesome... nice tips... but then what about the guys that do ITB?steevio wrote:do you mean with an analogue desk or ITB ?hydrogen wrote:so... how do you make sure your pushing the limits of your mix if you aren't running close to 0db?
with analogue you can happily go above 0 db at any point in the chain. i'm quite often pushing into clipping on the individual channels which need fattening, but i usually keep the entire mix at 0db on the master, if i want to saturate the whole mix, i would do that in the EQ by overdriving the tubes. but theres nothing to stop you driving the lines, the busses and the master if you want to, but it can easily start to get mushy.
alot depends on your desk and the quality of the op amps.
i had a mackie which was great for extremely overdriving kicks and percussion, the soundcraft ghost i have now is more subtle, every desk is so different.
MINIMALTECHNOHOUSE wrote:The whole point is, digital has a much lower noise floor but also a much lower (unwanted) distortion level than analogue...hydrogen wrote:so... how do you make sure your pushing the limits of your mix if you aren't running close to 0db?
It will be the processing that suffers by running close to 0db on every channel.
The overall volume can be increased after the bounce.
Surely totally ITB mixes dont suffer with this....livecollective wrote:MINIMALTECHNOHOUSE wrote:The whole point is, digital has a much lower noise floor but also a much lower (unwanted) distortion level than analogue...hydrogen wrote:so... how do you make sure your pushing the limits of your mix if you aren't running close to 0db?
It will be the processing that suffers by running close to 0db on every channel.
The overall volume can be increased after the bounce.
If you increase after bounce you are increasing the noise in the sound too.
You want to be as close to unity gain before bounce, then you can turn it down, so the noise to sound ratio is proper.
he was talking about 100% ITB i believe. ITB you may stay way under 0dB (-6dB is more than enough!) for bouncing/working. as far as could read over the past months (and i did ALOT research concerning ITB mixing etc.) it is even highly suggested to do so (summing engines work in a better way, not feeding them too hot) and the "real pro's" (talking of real mixing engineers making top 10 hits) keep their single channels at around -10dB. it's a completely different thing than working with a console.livecollective wrote:MINIMALTECHNOHOUSE wrote:The whole point is, digital has a much lower noise floor but also a much lower (unwanted) distortion level than analogue...hydrogen wrote:so... how do you make sure your pushing the limits of your mix if you aren't running close to 0db?
It will be the processing that suffers by running close to 0db on every channel.
The overall volume can be increased after the bounce.
If you increase after bounce you are increasing the noise in the sound too.
You want to be as close to unity gain before bounce, then you can turn it down, so the noise to sound ratio is proper.
: there's loads of great ITB compressors since a while. can't choose a favourite...all depends for what. 
for warm "glue" the fairchild 670 emu. for fast agressive punch the stillwell rocket. just 2 examples...