How to create space in a mix

[livecollective]

i kind of agree with oblio and carl smart, its not all in the production techniques. of course it helps if you have a few tricks, but i use fairly similar techniques on all my tunes, and sometimes things just synergise into a living, breathing space, and with other tunes the environment just seems flat and lifeless.
i think alot depends on your choice of timbres, and how they work with each other.

Sure, sometimes things fall into place. But I have witnessed proper mixing engineers take complete sht tracks and place them into an amazing environment, full of atmosphere and head rooom. It does come down to knowing the technical process of creating space, sure you may happen upon it and things may magically sound good without any work.

There is a technical side of it, this shouldn't take away from the mystical, spiritual connection you have with your music, especially because the technical side is just a theory, and the theory must be molded to fit your application.

i think the techniques we're talking about are well documented and have been around for years, as a recording studio engineer i used them all the time recording bands. and a lot of it was down to the quality of the reverbs.

anyone can pan a few sounds, double things up and put delays on.
but it doesnt always work. ive heard a lot of people mention hard panning hats with a delay on one side etc. well i dont like that effect, it quite often doesnt sound right to me.

i wasnt really talking about falling on things without work, what i meant was that sometimes these techniques dont seem to work with certain tracks, and that when it does work, the actual quality of the tune has a lot to do with it. if all your frequencies are working together in a synergy, then it's easier to apply the techniques.

maybe i'm just waffling on now
i

I agree fully. All I was saying is that knowing these techniques which have been around forever (and yes mostly used with live band recording) is an absolute necessity and not the end all be all to a good track. Judging by the responses on this post, a lot of people have not heard of/experimented with
some of these techniques however popular and well documented they are.


It all comes down to a track by track basis, but its good to have knowledge of all the techniques to apply to something, some will work sometimes and sometimes they wont.

[steevio]

It all comes down to a track by track basis, but its good to have knowledge of all the techniques to apply to something, some will work sometimes and sometimes they wont.

absolutely.
i think thats what i was trying to say, and of course we should know what the specific techniques are.

every track is so different, it amazes me everytime i write a tune that even after just the intial stages, it takes on a life of its own, and almost designs itself.

there are no rules about the placement of sounds in the stereo field, or what the levels of each sound should be. if you listen to recordings by the jazz legend Miles Davis, the instruments are often hard panned and the solos are often way louder than the rhythm section, it's crude production technique, and seems at odds with EDM production, and yet it sounds right for that kind of music, and creates that magic space we're talking about.

i feel the same way about every tune i write. it has to have its own space, and how you create it is totally individual to that tune.
quite often the only way a tune will work for me is if i have hardly any reverb, and almost no panning or special effects, other times its the opposite.

[livecollective]

[quote="steevioit amazes me everytime i write a tune that even after just the intial stages, it takes on a life of its own, and almost designs itself.

[/quote]

quoted for deepness.


its amazing when tunes just roll like that, both technically and creatively. Its funny, I have a couple tracks I am fiddling with, and one just is coming together so well, it sounds so great because as you were saying the frequencies just hit that right spot, the others I am forced to dig deep within my bag of tricks to bring out elements in the proper way.

all this talk makes me want to go create some space!

[hydrogen]

all this talk makes me want to go create some space!

all we can think about is space!!

[Opuswerk]

Thx for all the replies

This really is turning into a great thread already.

Sound spatiality really seems as something that will rather happen than something one can plan. All those little tricks about reverbs and delays are quite usefull though as they really help i found will post some experiments with those later on. I've really had luck with the Left and tight EQuing of Ableton's EQ8. That can really help get the sound wide, as the reverbs seem to tend to muddy things up if you don't use a really really good one.

I think i'm gonna draw plans of the tracks as I would for an actual architectural project and then place the elements accordingly in that space. Hopefully that'll get me somewhere and will push me to be more focused about sound placements and spatial design. I really never thought i'd one day come to linking music and architecture in such a way

The mysticism evoqued by Carl Smart is really what needs to be nailed in any piece of art. It's actually the hardest to get at and almost if never reproducible with the same tricks...

Pretty excited as to trying those things out next week.

[Robot Criminal]

If u wan't some very good 3D space reference in minimal techno, listen to concept 1. The sh!t goes around your head
Some very tricky spot on panning and frequency automation goin on.

[Roqqert]

search for binaural

[1nfinitezer0]

search for binaural

how does low-frequency phase interference patterns create space? from my impression binaural beats are merely a psychoacoustic illusion that creates a third sound that is the difference of two other identical signals ms out of phase. Listening to these does not place them anywhere in 3d differently as much as some funky vibrational things goin on. Care to expand?