attention fellow producers..... rampant piracy

[subtropical]

ill have a word with my source for you, get you some exact figures so u can see how much damage has been done. Also i picked oscar g and holden (progressive types) because at the time i'm talkin about oscar g was huge, as was prog, and at this time, holden is huge, as is what he does, has nothing to do with the genre at all. Also I doubt very much it has anything to do with 9 billion labels starting up at the same time. Its all about loss in sales on vinyl and the sharp increase in the download market. Not that the loss isnt set off against digi sales, but believe me they hardly make a dent in comparrison to what used to be earnt. I'll reply later with the figures once i've got them.
Marc

I don't think holden is "huge" right now... or his style of music. But that is unimportant... .

Well, to be realistic...trance and prog ARE huge as of now. You need to get some perspective outside of your own. People like Tiesto and Oakenfold are among the highest paid people in the industry...and with prog you have folks like sasha, diggers, zabiela etc...the list goes on and on...but they are earning huge and playing to MASSIVE crowds worldwide at massive venues.

just an FYI...you seem to think that because you aren't into it...that it has faded or something

You seem to be out of touch

They aren't as huge as they used to be, regardless. Has nothing to do with what i'm into. Saying someone is "huge right now" implies something stronger than what is actually going on, IMO. Argue biases all you want, but to say something is "huge right now" implies that it's bigger than it was before or something. And that's just not the case.


I'm not out of touch at all. And the fact that i'm not "into" trance has nothing to do with the fact that it *is* past it's time and has faded. It's irrelevant. Trance is the most basic of electronic dance music. It requires only a basic understanding of musical composition. This might be why it's so popular... everyone understands it immediately and a lot of people like it because it tickles all the right parts of someone who has never heard much of it before / doesn't have experience with music that is much deeper than being involved with that or other genres of similar depth. Most people either moved on and allowed their tastes and sound to evolve into something with alittle more to it, aside from the people who decided to stay with it and bank off the popularity and $$$.

This is way off topic though

Yeah, no need for you to waste your time talking about what trance is etc. Music taste is subjective and you don't have to belittle those that love trance or prog etc with your oversimplified explanation coated in subjectivity. Let's stick to the topic that you introduced so wrongly into this thread. Trance and prog ARE in fact huge at this exact moment in time. As much as they are not our favorite- those jocks are filling arenas with their sound THESES DAYS and so you are without a shadow of a doubt wrong about this.

[theclockstrucktwelve]

so you think its okay to download music you havent paid for?
and you dont think that artists should make enough money to survive?

Yes..

and yes, they need to make money to survive.

But there is no relation between these two things. That's pretty much the bigger part of what i've been talking about.

We can talk all day about what people consider theft or not and a few more days about moral responsibilities and individual feelings regarding morality and thieving of things.. but that's kind of something people need to figure out as individuals. You can't convince people, generally, one way or another... and that's not my intent. Especially since I feel different than many about the subject. But there is a difference between talking about right and wrong and talking about actual impact of trends, indepedent of what one thinks is correct or not from a legal and moral standpoint. And that's all I'm trying to establish - people keep talking about artists like they are poor zoo animals that only get fed when people don't download music or something. There is *no* evidence anywhere to support that downloads affect sales or profits or any evidence to suggest that artists are impacted in any way aside from getting angry and getting more free exposure (regardless of if they approve of the methods or not).

[dncn]

theft

noun {C or U}
(the act of) dishonestly taking something which belongs to someone else and keeping it


pretty cut and dried if you ask me

[theclockstrucktwelve]

Yeah, no need for you to waste your time talking about what trance is etc. Music taste is subjective and you don't have to belittle those that love trance or prog etc with your oversimplified explanation coated in subjectivity. Let's stick to the topic that you introduced so wrongly into this thread. Trance and prog ARE in fact huge at this exact moment in time. As much as they are not our favorite- those jocks are filling arenas with their sound THESES DAYS and so you are without a shadow of a doubt wrong about this.

In case you didn't notice, subjectivity of musical taste had nothing to do with what I was talking about. And I didn't at all suggest that trance and prog were not popular at this time. I even explained partially why they might be popular. I also didn't belittle anyone. Heaven forbid the things I say be tainted with a negative tone when I don't like the things i'm talking about, but that doesn't change the facts. People can like whatever they damn well want to like. But music isn't something so intangible that it cannot be anaylzed or explained at all. It's been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. And the comments you most likely mistook as "belittleing" were a very concise and simplified (yet completely accurate) disection of a "genre" that is venerable for it's reputation as an extremely genre-centric and formulaic, repeatedly imitated musical style. It's not like the things I said haven't been said before. You can't cry "subjective!" on that stuff, as it's not. It's pretty much math. I didn't say that made it invalid as entertainment or music. Although I certainly don't enjoy it personally and most people here and elsewhere would agree with me besides.

I'm not "without a shadow of a doubt wrong" about anything. As outlined above, I didn't say it wasn't popular. A lot of people are making good money and spending good money on it. It's just not important in anyway unless you're looking at it from a purely capitalist perspective.

[dncn]

Yeah, no need for you to waste your time talking about what trance is etc. Music taste is subjective and you don't have to belittle those that love trance or prog etc with your oversimplified explanation coated in subjectivity. Let's stick to the topic that you introduced so wrongly into this thread. Trance and prog ARE in fact huge at this exact moment in time. As much as they are not our favorite- those jocks are filling arenas with their sound THESES DAYS and so you are without a shadow of a doubt wrong about this.

In case you didn't notice, subjectivity of musical taste had nothing to do with what I was talking about. And I didn't at all suggest that trance and prog were not popular at this time. I even explained partially why they might be popular. I also didn't belittle anyone. Heaven forbid the things I say be tainted with a negative tone when I don't like the things i'm talking about, but that doesn't change the facts. People can like whatever they damn well want to like. But music isn't something so intangible that it cannot be anaylzed or explained at all. It's been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. And the comments you most likely mistook as "belittleing" were a very concise and simplified (yet completely accurate) disection of a "genre" that is venerable for it's reputation as an extremely genre-centric and formulaic, repeatedly imitated musical style. It's not like the things I said haven't been said before. You can't cry "subjective!" on that stuff, as it's not. It's pretty much math. I didn't say that made it invalid as entertainment or music. Although I certainly don't enjoy it personally and most people here and elsewhere would agree with me besides.

I'm not "without a shadow of a doubt wrong" about anything. As outlined above, I didn't say it wasn't popular. A lot of people are making good money and spending good money on it. It's just not important in anyway unless you're looking at it from a purely capitalist perspective.

its as important as any type of music to the people who are into it.

[theclockstrucktwelve]

theft

noun {C or U}
(the act of) dishonestly taking something which belongs to someone else and keeping it


pretty cut and dried if you ask me

I think I pretty much indicated that part of things had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was talking about the effect piracy has on sales. Doesn't matter if you think it's right or wrong or stealing or not..

Although some would argue that downloading of intangible digital media via filesharing isn't dishonest or taking something that belongs to someone else. If you want a new angle - it's the people sharing the goods that you shoudl be angry with.. not the people taking people up on it. They are the ones actually committing the offense from a legal standpoint. If you want to take that angle, I might agree in part.

I think all should really get versed on how the laws currently actually work though and look at this topic f rom a broader perspective.. it's not limited to this board, there's a lot of people who have invested a lot more time, effort and resources into this topic and there's a lot more to learn elsewhere. The fact is that the laws that exist and people's actions and reactions to this "hot issue" are all fucked up from all angles. There is need of serious reform on all fronts.

[theclockstrucktwelve]

its as important as any type of music to the people who are into it.

On a personal level, sure. I'm talking about looking at it through a broader scope and it's place in musical history and it's evolution as a musical form. It's had it's time and has nothing more to contribute aside from catering to the people that like that. This happens to almost all music. It's fact, not opinion.

[MarcAshken]

The music industry is much like any other industry, music when it is packaged for sale becomes a product to both the consumer and the seller. Money changes hands and the industry is kept afloat, same as any other industry. If cadburys had regular theft from all of their factories, twenty four hours a day, it would effect their sales, because people would be stealing the product instead of buying it. Its pretty basic stuff and I can see from your replies in this thread that you are intelligent. If i understand you correctly, you're whole argument is based on the fact that there is no evidence that downloading music without paying for it effects sales. What is it about the music industry that makes it different from any other industy experiencing theft? Is it a magical self renewing industry that doesnt need money to continue or is it that a comprehensive study hasnt been done into the effect of downloading?