Interesting article about the demise of underground music
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oblioblioblio
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the lack of monoculture thing is interesting imo (from Android's post)
i dunno, it's a weird and vast thing to think about. i think it was only really in the 60s that the underground had one major centrepoint. i wouldn't say that mtv or band of the year were as galvanising a focal point as some of the culture from 60s. (but even then the monoculture thing was brief, and had it's roots in a possibly more diffused collection of people from 50s and before)
i think culturally speaking we're spread out an awful lot. lots of little niches, but probably across all of these niches people still have a lot in common, just with some minor differences.
I dunno, maybe it's things in mainstream culture that have made it less necessary for there to be a major focal point for underground lifestyles. like maybe late 60s was a unique tidal wave with a million different factors like LSD, Vietnam, post WWII stuff etc etc etc.
I don't think there'll be another time like it, which incidentally is related to an issue in mainstream media of trying to find another figurehead like Bob Dylan or whoever. Not gonna happen.
I think the tribalist kinda thing is gonna be more and more evident. Like, say, the difference between Berlin and Bristol.... I think as focal points for certain lifestyle choices both these cities have a lot in common, but I think the flavour of both is very different. Like Berlin is obviously techno thru and thru, and Bristol is drum n bass/jungle/ etc etc. Which, obviously to many people would say that they couldn't tell the difference between.
About the original article, I don't know how much I agree with it. I think that 'underground' comes from certain lifestyle choices in reaction to certain other lifestyle choices. I don't think that technology can affect this primary human interaction. as in it's not going to make independently minded people any less or more so. But I think technology can definitely affect how the underground us, on the surface of things.
Like, I was talking to a guy at a feircely indepdent, even arrogant, vinyl shop. About whther something like this place can exist in digital form. My view is that even though the format can be different, the essence is unchanging.
Anyways now my brain hurts.
i dunno, it's a weird and vast thing to think about. i think it was only really in the 60s that the underground had one major centrepoint. i wouldn't say that mtv or band of the year were as galvanising a focal point as some of the culture from 60s. (but even then the monoculture thing was brief, and had it's roots in a possibly more diffused collection of people from 50s and before)
i think culturally speaking we're spread out an awful lot. lots of little niches, but probably across all of these niches people still have a lot in common, just with some minor differences.
I dunno, maybe it's things in mainstream culture that have made it less necessary for there to be a major focal point for underground lifestyles. like maybe late 60s was a unique tidal wave with a million different factors like LSD, Vietnam, post WWII stuff etc etc etc.
I don't think there'll be another time like it, which incidentally is related to an issue in mainstream media of trying to find another figurehead like Bob Dylan or whoever. Not gonna happen.
I think the tribalist kinda thing is gonna be more and more evident. Like, say, the difference between Berlin and Bristol.... I think as focal points for certain lifestyle choices both these cities have a lot in common, but I think the flavour of both is very different. Like Berlin is obviously techno thru and thru, and Bristol is drum n bass/jungle/ etc etc. Which, obviously to many people would say that they couldn't tell the difference between.
About the original article, I don't know how much I agree with it. I think that 'underground' comes from certain lifestyle choices in reaction to certain other lifestyle choices. I don't think that technology can affect this primary human interaction. as in it's not going to make independently minded people any less or more so. But I think technology can definitely affect how the underground us, on the surface of things.
Like, I was talking to a guy at a feircely indepdent, even arrogant, vinyl shop. About whther something like this place can exist in digital form. My view is that even though the format can be different, the essence is unchanging.
Anyways now my brain hurts.
like in the article said, the problem is :
nothing on the internet can stay underground if its good - its not possible cause everybody in the world can get to it in a second.
real underground, or the definition of it have to be physical.
in the moment where someone put a little information about it on the internet, generations and millions of people can google it for the next 100 years.
in the early days it was fucking hard to create a hype only with word travel mouth to mouth ..
today you have to be extremly careful what you say to who. otherwise it gets on a facebook page, and minutes later its on blogs and twitter and then .. BOOM
you could kill a underground track in minutes !
try that without the internet, its more of a live long project !
@oblioblioblio its my believe that digital and underground is a contradiction .. thats what the article is about.
digital is not only another medium for music like vinly, cds ..
the point is digital is not physical and thats a jump to another dimension, its another medium which brings a lot of other things with him.
and its not possible that you only change the medium to digital but the rest stays like it was..
nothing on the internet can stay underground if its good - its not possible cause everybody in the world can get to it in a second.
real underground, or the definition of it have to be physical.
in the moment where someone put a little information about it on the internet, generations and millions of people can google it for the next 100 years.
in the early days it was fucking hard to create a hype only with word travel mouth to mouth ..
today you have to be extremly careful what you say to who. otherwise it gets on a facebook page, and minutes later its on blogs and twitter and then .. BOOM
you could kill a underground track in minutes !
try that without the internet, its more of a live long project !
@oblioblioblio its my believe that digital and underground is a contradiction .. thats what the article is about.
digital is not only another medium for music like vinly, cds ..
the point is digital is not physical and thats a jump to another dimension, its another medium which brings a lot of other things with him.
and its not possible that you only change the medium to digital but the rest stays like it was..
Last edited by Themis on Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hmm, I would say that culture is converging more than diverging and we're shifting more and more towards a mono culture. Cities are struggling to maintain their identity and corporations/brands are hell bent on pushing their values to as big an audience as possible meaning that we see the same sh!t all over the world.
How long did it take for dubstep to reach Berlin after being born in London? Yes there are all kinds of genres and sub genres of music these days but that's because the sheer quantity of music is much greater. The very fact that we're here as people from all over the world, discussing this subject means that there are no longer any boundaries. Homogenisation innit.
How long did it take for dubstep to reach Berlin after being born in London? Yes there are all kinds of genres and sub genres of music these days but that's because the sheer quantity of music is much greater. The very fact that we're here as people from all over the world, discussing this subject means that there are no longer any boundaries. Homogenisation innit.
the question of homogenisation (is that a word even?) is tricky understanding that you meant that globalisation brings us all closer together as a culture and as being one and thinking the same. if cultures still get more and more fragmented from just the amount of culture we create (both globally and locally) all the time meaning there's an exponentially growing number of subgenres to have in the future I wouldn't worry too much about things getting too homogenous. I'm not sure if I understood you correctly so sorry if I seemed in any way offensive. that was not my intention. I just got caught up with your post.BigPoe wrote:Yes there are all kinds of genres and sub genres of music these days but that's because the sheer quantity of music is much greater. The very fact that we're here as people from all over the world, discussing this subject means that there are no longer any boundaries. Homogenisation innit.
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patrick bateman
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What? He dj's 2-3-4-5 times a week?!?!Themis wrote:
he dont give many gigs, if you dont live in berlin or maybe in london (fabric) you are lucky if you get him one time a year.
He don't play USA because of the immigration bullshit stuff you have to go through when entering.Themis wrote: For example the "dont play in america thing", its maybe some personal thing but it helps to avoid too much attention.
There are 54 releases on BEatport with his tracks... !Themis wrote: in the end actions like
dont release on mp3
He is a very famous DJ, you say less people know of him??Themis wrote: it leads all to, a kind of less people know about you.
He did a Fabric mix cd, everytime there is something about him everybody talks up and down about it in this so called internet