Producers losing hope in a crowded, insular scene

[oblioblioblio]

maybe it's a personal thing. i dunno.

with lots of music I make a snap judgement and then listen to the same record in a different mindset and I feel very differently.

i dunno though, maybe it's true. or maybe it's just different with different people listening and different types of music.

Like house, and other very groove based music you can probably tell a bit more easily, cos with that style tracks generally bare themselves from the start, and have a lot of consistancy across different sections. But at the same time I doubt there are many people who can judge a symphony from just one section. But maybe that style is a bit too far away from most electrnic music to be comparable.

For me it can take a while before I know how I feel. Sometimes it's straight away and when I listen again I feel similarly. BUt sometimes my feelings can flip around quite a lot.

One of my favourite records ever I hated for the first 4 or 5 listens but one day it all started to make sense to me, though that was when I was a bit younger.

It's definitely a tricky balancing act. Sometimes the closest you'll ever get to your true feelings is that instinctive reaction. But sometimes that can be misleading (with me at least).

tough.

[oblioblioblio]

i agree with alot of what people are saying here but all the answers seem to be revolving around looking to other people for validation...

i assume everyone saw the slices dvd with hawtin, even he said that they used to shop tracks to all the detroit labels at the time and never hear back.. The point is that if you believe in what you are doing the last thing you should do is wait for others to make things happen for you. It's easier now than ever for an artist to successfully market themselves and create their own business...

no one is going to be successful by waiting around for feedback on some techno message board. control your own destiny, i guarantee that 99% of the key players in this scene did exactly that

I dunno mate. Partly I agree with you, but also I don't.

As a producer you're too close to your material really to listen to it 100% with fresh ears/mind. Ok there are ways to find distance from that fact, like time. But still I dn't think you can ever listen to it like someone who didn't make it can.

I agree with you, cos it's important to have self belief, as especially when you end up forgin your own path with sound, you're never going to please evryone. But I think reactions from other people is important sometimes.

Also I disagree that people can market themselves. When I first started out, I put my tracks on quite a few message forums, but like other people have said, there aren't that many people who are prepared to listen with open ears to unknown prodcuers without any attachment. And even if they like your stuff, the chances are they're not gonna do much for you. maybe if they' really love it they'll send it to a friend. but not much else.

But I do agree that doing stuff yourself is pretty mich always a good thing. It is possible to find your own path.

And waiting on other peopls reactions can be dangerous, youre right.

[steevio]

i agree with alot of what people are saying here but all the answers seem to be revolving around looking to other people for validation...

i assume everyone saw the slices dvd with hawtin, even he said that they used to shop tracks to all the detroit labels at the time and never hear back.. The point is that if you believe in what you are doing the last thing you should do is wait for others to make things happen for you. It's easier now than ever for an artist to successfully market themselves and create their own business...

no one is going to be successful by waiting around for feedback on some techno message board. control your own destiny, i guarantee that 99% of the key players in this scene did exactly that

i agree
but i dont know about marketing, i hate that word.
ive said it a million times, just put your stuff out there. if its quality it will get picked up.
there used to be a saying back in the day, 'you can't keep a good tune down' it's still totally true.

i recently saw a very young minimal deep house producer called Wbeeza, he shone out like a beacon, he ouzed class from every pore, he just gave off an aura. there's only one of him for every 1000 bedroom musicians banging loops together in ableton who'll never get near to making it, thats just the way it is, some people have got it, and some havent.

but for the beginners (and the more experienced who wont give up ) dont let that put you off, maybe you're the one in a thousand.
there's late starters in every profession.

[daveashe]

I think theres a lot to be said about this, its a funny scene due to peoples tastes which can vary a lot, as there is so much room for manouvering you can almost do any style as minimal - i've even heard andean music :-)

What i think is that its just better to go and release your music to the download stores - its fairly simple, a bit time consuming but - what i say is if you create something you think is really cool, and still think its great after coming back to it after 24 hours just create a cover, release it on feiyr or somewhere like that then you will be surprised at what can happen. I just wanted to get something out there so i spent the weekend on creating 3 tracks, once i had the ideas down in arrange i jammed them live.

I only just released my first 3-track EP a couple of weeks ago and got a request to be on a compilation almost straight away, so it opens doors. I've had a couple of downloads from different stores so somebody paid to get my music, at least a couple of people like it that much (i'm still not fully distributed so waiting for beatport and itunes, but its on trackitdown.net)

I've learned very quickly that you have to just make your own decisions about your music, i'm happy enough to share my technique: create some cool stuff in arrange, map some knobs to a midi controller, and hit record.

You will know deep down whether its good, listen to the little voice

[::BLM::]

I don’t really care about feedback. I make music for myself and if I'm enjoying what I do then I couldn’t care about anyone else. I just think at the moment you have to be really very good to get anywhere, which imo is a good thing. I have a lot of mates that are doing very well at the moment (Wbeeza, Alex Celler, Ethly and Flori) and it’s because they are really fucking good at making music. I just wish a lot more people spent a few more years perfecting their music, rather then just putting their first tracks out on some digital label. I also wish I had the talent to sit down and make decent tracks each time, but unfortunately I don’t. It can be a proper rollercoaster ride this making music malarky. Next week I move into a studio, so hopefully I'll be able to get back into making music as I havent done anything in about 6 months.

[Phurniture]

I have to agree with some of what BLM said. It seems like the primary goal of a lot of producers (and I think this was apparent in the "demos thread") was simply getting music released, as opposed to making music for the love of music (and really trying to make something special). Over 10 years ago when there wasn't much music online (or in the "dance/electronic" record stores) I probably liked 10% of what I heard. Because it took a lot of effort and some money to get anything officially out there, so quality control, in a way, was higher. Now I get discouraged going through hundreds of sound-alike tracks trying to find something that catches my attention...sad isn't it.

I don't think I need to rehash the concept of how easy access to software and music digitally has watered down the whole pool of music. What I do want to say is that from my experience, those who have found success are usually those who have vested a lot of time and effort. For example, those producers and DJs from my home town that ended finding any larger success outside of the city were all those that slagged it out for years and years. They lived the scene. I saw them play larger clubs to packed audiences and small venues with a dozen people there. They played out every week, or several times a week. They created their own labels. They contacted other producers and DJs internationally and brought some of them over to play in the city. A lot of these guys have moved to Berlin to be close to the cultural center of techno. These guys have been at it for 10 to 15+ years and perhaps have found the type of "success" that some people around here are hoping for.

Now myself, I organized a few shows locally, sent a few demos etc. I've never had a release on a label and I accept that, since I don't put the music up as the #1 thing in my life. I have other interests, and perhaps more importantly, responsibilities. If I was 20 years old again, I could focus that kind of energy. I just make music as an enjoyable past-time.

Nowadays you really need to be doing something very special to get noticed. Not everyone creating cookie-cutter ticka-ticka-ticka (insert pitched 808 clave/tom sound here) minimal should be successful or even released...Sorry if that sounds harsh...

[oblioblioblio]

lots of nice posts in this thread.

For me, the primary objective of trying to reach some of these goals of getting your music out there isn't to get signed and have 'success' in the rise to stardom kind of way. Sometimes it's really nice for me to know that somone gets something from my music. It can be a lonely activity, producing, but to know that it might have been useful to another person, even in a small way, is really important to me.

It's definitely good that people can be forced to walk a long and isolated road to get to this point, where you can be sure that the music is actually being listened to, but I dunno. I do think that having this feedback loop can be useful to musicians. (though of course it can be dangerous to be 'successful'.


i like that saying 'you can't keep a good tune down' . i think isolated musicians should take some faith in that. and of course, like has been said. it's not at all impossible to start your own label.


As far as commenting on other people's music goes. Yeah, it's tricky, and sometimes saying nothing can be a great thing (if I send someone a track sometimes it's really beneficial to me just to know that it has been listened to in some way by a person, especially if I know them.)

I think too, that it sometimes be good as a musician to have someone to commuicate something from their experience of listening to your music, maybe from dancing, or smiling, or saying something. But as a label person/fellow musician I guess it's a personal thing whther you feel like this is a good thing for you to try and communicate or not. There can be a lot of room for interepretation.

[junooko]

very good points in this thread.

for me, i find maybe 2 - 4 tracks a month which really grab me and much more which i like, so it is not hard for me to find music i like. i buy around 20 tracks a month maybe. i am not a dj, so it is just for homelistening.

but i really try to listen to stuff i dont like, but which is interesting from an artistic point of view. it is hard to discribe for me, but i mean: it is art, isnt it? should it be easy or should one get challenged from time to time? so i take my time to listen to tracks which dont grab me in the first 30 sconds.

but i have to admit that i must feel connected in some way to the artist to do that. this could be because i heard a dj set in a club, it could be forums like this, or it could be an articel in the net or an interview in a magazine or whatever. i admit when searching trough beatport or itunes i never do this.