Going to start building a hardware studio.

- ask away
fl0w
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Post by fl0w »

credit_agro wrote:8. Big question here. If I have for example 18 tracks
recorded for a tune and I want to sequence, would I not need
a sequencer with tons of knobs or how do you do this?
Do you know MIDI?
MIDI send just events, no sound. Each event (key down, key up, pitch bend, general controller...) has a channel number. There are 16 channels in the MIDI norm.

If you need more than 16 channels, you'll have to use two MIDI interfaces (all sequencers can handle that).

When you record on your sequencer (remember, you record EVENTS here), you can record the events sent by the knobs on your synth. Press play and the sequencer will send the same events as if you were effectively turning the knobs.

When you record, you can just press Play on your sequencer, all instruments will play together.
You can also record one instrument at a time into your PC and then apply software effects in, say, Cubase...

Oh, you may quickly need an audio card with a lot of I/O.

Read steevio's advice: buy a few machines first. Don't forget you'll have to LEARN how each piece of equipment works.
steevio
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Post by steevio »

sorgenkind wrote:
dsat wrote:the virus is a mean machine
i love it
buy it

crappy presets though... synth manufacturers prob think we're all gonna make hard trance or prog or cheesy crap
quite typical in german synth like access and waldorf
I still was a schoolboy when I bought the waldorf microQ and after having listened to the presets I had the impression it was a trance synth... then once you learn how to program a synth you won't have such worries.
A hint: initialize/delete all the presets once you are a bit into synthesis, it's a nice way to push you to always come up with new sounds.
-->that's why I love old analog synth w/o presets.
good advice, man i dont think they make hardware synths that arent full of sh!t hard trance presets, my nords, and andromeda, exactly the same.
it makes you wonder how many newcomers to hardware are put off by that. it's a disgrace !! do they not know whats going on.
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Post by credit_agro »

nute wrote:
credit_agro wrote: 3. FX unit (what generally do you get with these? Is this
option better than seperate delay, distortion units etc.?
MarcAshken: Why not get hardware FX? Do you do your FX on a PC?)
Subjective answers to these questions depend on how you intend working. There are many ways of working but to use two examples -

1.Completely pre-arrange your tracks in midi and record the mixdown live to two tracks.
2.Multitrack your recording into your PC and then re-edit, arrange, add fx.

For option one you would probably need at least a reverb unit and more than likely some delays, compressors, etc.. depending on your style. Theres a glut of well useable affordable multi-fx units out these days from lexicon, tc, etc..

For option two you could get away with no outboard fx and use the fx in your audio arranger - ableton or whatever.
credit_agro wrote: 7. Computer or hardware sequencer? How much is a good hardware
sequencer?
Again, down to preference. The computer sequencer benefits from the visual aspect but can be let down by timing depending on your setup. Hardware sequencers are generally thought to have better timing and stability but less features. The Akai MPC series would be the most popular h/w sequencers, also Yamaha RS7000 is a nice machine. Personally i like the Sequentix P3.
credit_agro wrote: 8. Big question here. If I have for example 18 tracks
recorded for a tune and I want to sequence, would I not need
a sequencer with tons of knobs or how do you do this?
18 tracks of midi or audio?
For midi, most sequencers can handle that no probs....but remember, midi is a serial protocol so in a s/w midi sequencer youd need to put the timing-intensive tracks (drums usually) on the first few channels. Dont know why youd need loads of knobs unless you intend tweaking every parameter in real-time. Youve only got two hands! :)
credit_agro wrote: And then, if I want to mix down, equalise and stuff with hardware, what do I record the tracks onto to route through a mixing desk?
See my first answer.
credit_agro wrote: And finally, how will I manage automation?
Depends again on how your work-flow is. I presume your talking levels automation here. This can easily be handled in a s/w enviornment. For h/w automation youd need a digital desk.
God, im abit confused now. Im not really 100% sure about what I meant by some of the questions I asked.

In the past I have usually made some sound through a software synth using midi. I used to have quite a few midi tracks so to ease processor load I would record the midi effectively making it into an audio track and disabling the midi track.
I was thinking of doing this with the hardware setup. Just record all my sounds from a virus or whatever into the computer or some other type of recording device. I may then end up with 18 tracks of audio, with abelton I had the ability to to then timestretch audio, move around parts and all that. I would like this ability with hardware basically. I want to be able to do the equalisation with hardware et cetera then but I could work with a proper controller for software.
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Post by steevio »

credit_agro wrote:
God, im abit confused now. Im not really 100% sure about what I meant by some of the questions I asked.

In the past I have usually made some sound through a software synth using midi. I used to have quite a few midi tracks so to ease processor load I would record the midi effectively making it into an audio track and disabling the midi track.
I was thinking of doing this with the hardware setup. Just record all my sounds from a virus or whatever into the computer or some other type of recording device. I may then end up with 18 tracks of audio, with abelton I had the ability to to then timestretch audio, move around parts and all that. I would like this ability with hardware basically. I want to be able to do the equalisation with hardware et cetera then but I could work with a proper controller for software.
reading through this post would confuse anybody mate !!
midi/hardware is easy !!!!
this is how i do it, you need a midi sequencer in your computer (i prefer cubase) you need a midi interface, connect all your hardware up with midi cables.
connect the audio outs on your gear to seperate channels on your mixing desk.
the next bit is where things can be done in different ways, depending on what soundcard or mixer/interface you have, it all depends how many audio inputs it has.
the more inputs you have, the more you can keep your sounds seperate as you send them into your computer to be recorded, but its not totally necessary to keep them all seperate. i get my levels right at the start, by making sure all the velocities, note lengths etc. of the midi patterns i'm sending to my gear are right, in otherwords i'm effectively doing my arrangements and editing in the midi domain, i'm controlling what the synths do in midi, so that when i record the sounds back into my computer, the tune is already written, everything is at the right level and doing what i want it to do.
i have an analogue desk with 8 subgroups and an 8 in soundcard. sometimes i subgroup the sounds on the mixer into 8 important groups, like Kickdrum / Bass / percussion L / percussion R / texturalsounds L / textural sounds R / effects L / effects R, so that if i need to do any tweaks later i still have the option to say lower the bass against the rest of the mix etc.
infact usually i dont even bother to do this, i usually just make sure everything is right and record it down to two tracks and thats it !!
what i'm saying is i dont mess around with audio tracks to arrange my tunes, i do the arranging / automation etc. in the midi sequencer.
honestly its so much easier to do it this way, than to mess around with audio tracks, because you've got total control over absolutley everything in the midi domain, if just one bass note in the whole tune is a bit loud, you can turn in down individually without affecting anything else.
in other words i dont record any audio whatsoever till everything is sorted. (in a way it is like when you render in ableton.)
i think that because so many people start off on ableton these days, they 'think' in audio rather than midi, because ableton is great for arranging in audio, but poor with midi, cubase is luxury in comparison for midi arranging.
i hope that hasnt confused you even more.
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Post by northernlight »

wow, good posts in here :D
steevio wrote: reading through this post would confuse anybody mate !!
midi/hardware is easy !!!!
this is how i do it, you need a midi sequencer in your computer (i prefer cubase) you need a midi interface, connect all your hardware up with midi cables.
how do you do that? just connect them in a chain?
or do you need some kind of splitter where you can multiply the 2 midi connections from the soundcard?

what i'm saying is i dont mess around with audio tracks to arrange my tunes, i do the arranging / automation etc. in the midi sequencer.
honestly its so much easier to do it this way, than to mess around with audio tracks, because you've got total control over absolutley everything in the midi domain, if just one bass note in the whole tune is a bit loud, you can turn in down individually without affecting anything else.
in other words i dont record any audio whatsoever till everything is sorted. (in a way it is like when you render in ableton.)


wow, that's cool. never thought of using hardware like that.
what about if i would like to go hardware only? in fact using the pc just at the last stage to record the track. then i would need some hardware sequencer to replace Cubase in your example. Like a MPC or a Machinedrum, would that work?[/quote]
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Post by credit_agro »

steevio wrote:
credit_agro wrote:
God, im abit confused now. Im not really 100% sure about what I meant by some of the questions I asked.

In the past I have usually made some sound through a software synth using midi. I used to have quite a few midi tracks so to ease processor load I would record the midi effectively making it into an audio track and disabling the midi track.
I was thinking of doing this with the hardware setup. Just record all my sounds from a virus or whatever into the computer or some other type of recording device. I may then end up with 18 tracks of audio, with abelton I had the ability to to then timestretch audio, move around parts and all that. I would like this ability with hardware basically. I want to be able to do the equalisation with hardware et cetera then but I could work with a proper controller for software.
reading through this post would confuse anybody mate !!
midi/hardware is easy !!!!
this is how i do it, you need a midi sequencer in your computer (i prefer cubase) you need a midi interface, connect all your hardware up with midi cables.
connect the audio outs on your gear to seperate channels on your mixing desk.
the next bit is where things can be done in different ways, depending on what soundcard or mixer/interface you have, it all depends how many audio inputs it has.
the more inputs you have, the more you can keep your sounds seperate as you send them into your computer to be recorded, but its not totally necessary to keep them all seperate. i get my levels right at the start, by making sure all the velocities, note lengths etc. of the midi patterns i'm sending to my gear are right, in otherwords i'm effectively doing my arrangements and editing in the midi domain, i'm controlling what the synths do in midi, so that when i record the sounds back into my computer, the tune is already written, everything is at the right level and doing what i want it to do.
i have an analogue desk with 8 subgroups and an 8 in soundcard. sometimes i subgroup the sounds on the mixer into 8 important groups, like Kickdrum / Bass / percussion L / percussion R / texturalsounds L / textural sounds R / effects L / effects R, so that if i need to do any tweaks later i still have the option to say lower the bass against the rest of the mix etc.
infact usually i dont even bother to do this, i usually just make sure everything is right and record it down to two tracks and thats it !!
what i'm saying is i dont mess around with audio tracks to arrange my tunes, i do the arranging / automation etc. in the midi sequencer.
honestly its so much easier to do it this way, than to mess around with audio tracks, because you've got total control over absolutley everything in the midi domain, if just one bass note in the whole tune is a bit loud, you can turn in down individually without affecting anything else.
in other words i dont record any audio whatsoever till everything is sorted. (in a way it is like when you render in ableton.)
i think that because so many people start off on ableton these days, they 'think' in audio rather than midi, because ableton is great for arranging in audio, but poor with midi, cubase is luxury in comparison for midi arranging.
i hope that hasnt confused you even more.

Sorry man. Im still confused. :cry:

I think the problem is that I can't visualise it it my head, theres alot of terms being used thats confusing me. If you had a photo of your setup and could show me through the various stages, workflow and stuff? Thats probably really asking alot but you seem to really know your stuff and I think it could be a valuable resource to have available on the site for future users.
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Post by trak660 »

I agree with Steevio.
It's a lot easier to program the whole song on your gear.
If you're going to be cutting-and-pasting everything, then you might as well stick with an all-software setup. :wink:
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Post by northernlight »

i've got some time and spend it on making a little map. this is how i read the posts here.

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