Sample rates & bit resolutions
I haven't done this yet but I think this will work...I have both ableton and logic... You can rewire ableton through logic and it maybe possible to bounce the track from there ....I think the audio from ableton comes out on the final bounce but I can't be sure...I need to give this a try. Logic does a great job on down sampling. It has several opitions on dithering and converts rather smoothly. I think pro tools does a good job too.
The final render after mastering should be 16 bit /44.1khz because cds are limited to what they can reproduce. However pre-mastering you shoudl render the track to be 16-32 bits / 96,000khz. It's better to do that because with a higher sample rate your compressors and limiter will be more accurate on their attack and release times making compression smoother with less chance at distorting your track. This is why mastering should not be done inside of a multitracker before you output the track, unless of course you have all your audio at a super high bitrate inside of the program. When you are done with the mastering 44.1 should be fine. Nobody will know the difference.
what do you mean by inside of a multitracker before the final output..On my Daw most of the mastering effect are applied to the output track...so would it be safe to say you'd have to do this on all the tracks or are you speaking of the pre-master then final out through a finalizer? because I know that is great but that also ain't cheap...finalizers are sweet from what i hear though.Torque wrote:The final render after mastering should be 16 bit /44.1khz because cds are limited to what they can reproduce. However pre-mastering you shoudl render the track to be 16-32 bits / 96,000khz. It's better to do that because with a higher sample rate your compressors and limiter will be more accurate on their attack and release times making compression smoother with less chance at distorting your track. This is why mastering should not be done inside of a multitracker before you output the track, unless of course you have all your audio at a super high bitrate inside of the program. When you are done with the mastering 44.1 should be fine. Nobody will know the difference.
why should you achieve better result with resampling...Robot Criminal wrote:dont render in ableton, instead resample - u get better results. And with downsampling - never downsample until before the final process, maximize - dither (for cd)kinatas wrote:working on a project in (for example) 44.1 and rendering @96 gives strange results, like changing the pitch of certain VSTs (which is, I suppose, a VST project issue, not an ableton one).
btw... what software do you use to downsample? is there anything highly suggested about this?
First let me start by explaining the medium somewhat. A sampler rate does not refer to the sound quality of the recording so much as it does the resolution that you can effect.Measax wrote: what do you mean by inside of a multitracker before the final output..On my Daw most of the mastering effect are applied to the output track...so would it be safe to say you'd have to do this on all the tracks or are you speaking of the pre-master then final out through a finalizer? because I know that is great but that also ain't cheap...finalizers are sweet from what i hear though.
For example if you take a peice of audio into a program like soundforge and zoom in as far as you can you will see thses little dots that are at the same intervals from eachother. The line going through them is the signal. The dots represent a point at wich you can effect the signal. You will notice that you can only drag the dots verticly with a pencil tool but not horizontily. These dots represent the sample rate of the audio. If you were to want more control over how much of the audio signal you can manipulate you would re-sample the signal to a higher frequency rate. That would make the distance between the points smaller as you raise the sample rate. This is why compressors and other effects with envelopes can do their job much better at a higher sample rate because it helps to make the attack and release times more accurate.
The output of the track that you hear through the monitors is not always at a high sample rate. This is usually due to the audio inside of the program on the various tracks being of lower then a desired rate (like 44,100htz instead of 96,000htz). This is why mastering (IMO) should not be done on the master output signal within the program.
You can stop this problem if you just render the track out of the program into a single file (at a high sample rate) and then import it in to another program like soundforge (or something similar) and then apply the matering effects like multiband compressors, eq's and limiters. The you can output that file when you are finished into something at a lower sample rate like 44,100htz or something. It's just a little trick i picked up to improve the way compressors work.
ah...thanks torque...I understood about the sample rate and dots but was a bit off on the whole effects thing...makes a lot of sense...question though...if I am working with a track in say...logic...and I bounce it...should I first bounce it at a high res with nothing on the master and the add effects to the master and the bounce and the reimport to finalize or just do this as one bounce with effects and one bounce to finalize (resample)?
...so if I didn't get it wrong, unless you don't have a straight tune with no particular crossed fx (say track 1+2 dyn. compressed together) it should be even better to export every single track to a separate aiff/wav file and mixdown afterwards with some dedicated tools (soundforge/audition/wavelab), apply master fx and downsample/downscale/whatever...Torque wrote:Measax wrote:You can stop this problem if you just render the track out of the program into a single file (at a high sample rate) and then import it in to another program like soundforge (or something similar) and then apply the matering effects like multiband compressors, eq's and limiters. The you can output that file when you are finished into something at a lower sample rate like 44,100htz or something. It's just a little trick i picked up to improve the way compressors work.
now this is getting tricky
I guess you could. But personally i wouldn't waste my time. I was talking about what you need to do to get a track ready for final mastering. What you're talking about is mixing down.kinatas wrote: ...so if I didn't get it wrong, unless you don't have a straight tune with no particular crossed fx (say track 1+2 dyn. compressed together) it should be even better to export every single track to a separate aiff/wav file and mixdown afterwards with some dedicated tools (soundforge/audition/wavelab), apply master fx and downsample/downscale/whatever...
now this is getting tricky
nomeasax wrote: ah...thanks torque...I understood about the sample rate and dots but was a bit off on the whole effects thing...makes a lot of sense...question though...if I am working with a track in say...logic...and I bounce it...should I first bounce it at a high res with nothing on the master and the add effects to the master and the bounce and the reimport to finalize or just do this as one bounce with effects and one bounce to finalize (resample)?
instructions:
1. mix down the track with no mastering effects on the master channel (ie compression/limiter/overall eq)
2. Export your mixdown into one file at a high sample rate (96,000khz etc...)
3. Bring the file into a mastering program like soundforge etc....
4. First apply an eq over the entire mix if it needs it
5. Apply a multiband compressor over the entire mix if it needs it
6. normalise
7. get the statistics on the file and look at the one that says "RMS loudness" take this number (For example -21.2db) then subtract the number by -10 to get the setting for your limiter(total = -11.2db).
8. Set the limiter threshold at the total you got from doing the math (-11.2db) and set the ceiling on it at -.3
9. check the stats again. The total rms loudness you are shooting for is around -10 to -12db.
10. Save the file as a wave file at 44,100htz
11. enjoy........