Don't you see that at this point everyone is ignoring you? Is that really necessary to bash modular synth users every single time? Funny life you have!MagpieIndustries wrote:If its not made on an analog modular it aint got soul.
electronic soul
Re: electronic soul
Re: electronic soul
i think that thomasa's first reply, and AK's first reply, is most to the point, because they resonate with my rather deconstructivist opinions:
"soul" is an arbitrary word that Steevio happened to chose, what I think is relevant to talk about instead is communication. When a piece of music successfully communicates (with steevio) and tickles the "soul-receptors" in his brain, he feels that the music has got soul. Hadn't it communicated with him, he couldn't affirm that it has soul.
Since most of us can agree on what "soul" in terms of music and sound is, we can have this discussion - and it is regarding the definition of 'soul' that we can discuss over countless of pages (or perhaps, limit ourselves to one explanation per user)
What I think is interesting and important from a musicians point of view is how to communicate with the listener through your music (and Not visual identity, myth, history, agenda as an artist)
two examples of musicians that I personally feel that they fail in the communication is, as mentioned, the Swedish functional techno crew. You can hear that it is looped in a pretty "cynical" way, and unless you are into that functional attitude, you have a hard time to accept the music as such. Of course, theories like "the media is the message" I presume is old cold food around here..
The other example is Deadmaus, with a (gimmicky) costume and a nihilistic attitude towards electronic music - he's communicating perfectly, but i dont agree with the message.
To go back to what steevio originally sought for, the way that I strive for achieving soulfull electronic music is by using quasi-analogue gear, unconventional setups and trying to avoid replicating what other people are doing. I am trying to persuade people to stop emulating the coolest thing that they've ever heard (harder than it sounds, it is)
here begins the rant:
Soulfull electronic music can be quantisised without swing, if you use it intentionally to create an effect
- a short cut to soul is wobbly micro timing
soulfull electronic music can be made on perfectly digitally 440hz tuned oscillators, but again, a shortcut to soul is minor detuning
it grinds my gear with people who search for unstable equipment as a holy grail, because this will instantly lend their music soul. NO. Learn to control your gear/means of creating electronic music, and express yourself with it. Just because some experienced coinnoisseurs find that they like something and that it helps their purposes, don't mimick them per default without questioning why they have come to their conclusions.
communicating soulfulness comes with experience and in some cases talent. Not the gear.
/rant
over and out
"soul" is an arbitrary word that Steevio happened to chose, what I think is relevant to talk about instead is communication. When a piece of music successfully communicates (with steevio) and tickles the "soul-receptors" in his brain, he feels that the music has got soul. Hadn't it communicated with him, he couldn't affirm that it has soul.
Since most of us can agree on what "soul" in terms of music and sound is, we can have this discussion - and it is regarding the definition of 'soul' that we can discuss over countless of pages (or perhaps, limit ourselves to one explanation per user)
What I think is interesting and important from a musicians point of view is how to communicate with the listener through your music (and Not visual identity, myth, history, agenda as an artist)
two examples of musicians that I personally feel that they fail in the communication is, as mentioned, the Swedish functional techno crew. You can hear that it is looped in a pretty "cynical" way, and unless you are into that functional attitude, you have a hard time to accept the music as such. Of course, theories like "the media is the message" I presume is old cold food around here..
The other example is Deadmaus, with a (gimmicky) costume and a nihilistic attitude towards electronic music - he's communicating perfectly, but i dont agree with the message.
To go back to what steevio originally sought for, the way that I strive for achieving soulfull electronic music is by using quasi-analogue gear, unconventional setups and trying to avoid replicating what other people are doing. I am trying to persuade people to stop emulating the coolest thing that they've ever heard (harder than it sounds, it is)
here begins the rant:
Soulfull electronic music can be quantisised without swing, if you use it intentionally to create an effect
- a short cut to soul is wobbly micro timing
soulfull electronic music can be made on perfectly digitally 440hz tuned oscillators, but again, a shortcut to soul is minor detuning
it grinds my gear with people who search for unstable equipment as a holy grail, because this will instantly lend their music soul. NO. Learn to control your gear/means of creating electronic music, and express yourself with it. Just because some experienced coinnoisseurs find that they like something and that it helps their purposes, don't mimick them per default without questioning why they have come to their conclusions.
communicating soulfulness comes with experience and in some cases talent. Not the gear.
/rant
over and out
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oblioblioblio
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Re: electronic soul
ingemar, yes!! great post. i agree with everything you said.
To pinpoint communication is interesting. Perhaps to refine this further... that 'soulful' communication is one that reaches particular layers of humanity or consciousness. It is easy to communicate that you are angry, or that you are lazy. But to reach those deeper layers is a harder task, I just remembered David Lynch:
“Ideas are like fish. If you want to catch little fish, you can stay in the shallow water. But if you want to catch the big fish, you’ve got to go deeper. Down deep, the fish are more powerful and more pure.They’re huge and abstract. And they’re very beautiful.”
To pinpoint communication is interesting. Perhaps to refine this further... that 'soulful' communication is one that reaches particular layers of humanity or consciousness. It is easy to communicate that you are angry, or that you are lazy. But to reach those deeper layers is a harder task, I just remembered David Lynch:
“Ideas are like fish. If you want to catch little fish, you can stay in the shallow water. But if you want to catch the big fish, you’ve got to go deeper. Down deep, the fish are more powerful and more pure.They’re huge and abstract. And they’re very beautiful.”
Re: electronic soul
well no Ingemar mate, it wasnt arbitrary at all, i very specifically brought up the subject because it's recognised terminology used by several of the Detroit guys, and its a term used by me and many of my friends for many years to describe the kind of techno we like.Ingemar wrote: "soul" is an arbitrary word that Steevio happened to chose, what I think is relevant to talk about instead is communication.
i can see where you are coming from in your post and like what you're saying but it may have missed the point somewhat, or i didnt articulate my questions very well.
for me there is a difficult to define essence in some techno music which touches a really deep place in me, its very rare but when it happens it makes me believe in the artform and makes me want to continue being a part of its magic.
its not just about communication for me. we can communicate many different aspects of reality with music, soulfulness is but one specific aspect.
i suppose what i was asking is - what is everyones interpretation of soul in electronic form ? what does it mean to you, if anything ?
i cannot listen to music that has no soul, no matter what kind of music it is, and its harder to find that essence in electronic music, which is probably why i hardly ever listen to techno and house, which is bizarre considering techno is my life.
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oblioblioblio
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Re: electronic soul
i think there are two interlinked things that are important here. I think there are pure, raw, abstract forms of consciousness that are present in the world. These are linked to humans. Normally in everyday life we just see the tip of the iceberg, where these vast forces inform behaviour that we witness or experience on the surface. But these forms are much bigger than we are usually able to see at first glance. It is possible to witness these deeper forms, perhaps through dream, art, self realisation, intense personal experience. I think with music and other art we can communicate these forms and present a gateway that other people can access. For me, the idea of communication relates to the method through which we can link these deeper forms into physical art.
Re: electronic soul
I agree that "soul" is a very relevant term. Real detroit techno has a lot of the same intent and origin as what is usually called "soul" music.
For me, music doesn't have to have this "soul" to be good - I'm really surprised that anyone would call Regis "soul music" - it's great stuff but doesn't strike me as having that quality. And it's not that it's cold or hard ... Jeff Mills has already been mentioned as a very hard but soulful artist. A good example of someone who has made some very cold soul tracks would be Rod Modell - not all of his stuff by any means, but there are a few. Here is one that has always hit home for me; ice cold but very deep and soulful:
For me, music doesn't have to have this "soul" to be good - I'm really surprised that anyone would call Regis "soul music" - it's great stuff but doesn't strike me as having that quality. And it's not that it's cold or hard ... Jeff Mills has already been mentioned as a very hard but soulful artist. A good example of someone who has made some very cold soul tracks would be Rod Modell - not all of his stuff by any means, but there are a few. Here is one that has always hit home for me; ice cold but very deep and soulful:
Re: electronic soul
ok steevio, When you say soul as in detroit-terminology it certainly narrows the field of usage down a lot!
I don't think I'm qualified to make remarks about the 90's detroit stuff, but in my world, old techno soul is a term still relevant for todays music, only that today it is so extremely far (and increasingly so) between techno tracks that has soul. Soul to me is synonymous with confidence, fearlessness, integrity. Rejecting the given norms and moulding your own cosmos. Like the guys did back then. Like someone, every now and then does these days.
Soul to me couldn't be locked in a temporal space. Although now perhaps I am drifting away from what you intended the topic to be about.
Perhaps some aspects of soul are accessible only to people that was there, or in some other ways have the experience needed to communicate with the music - im dead sure that when I'm old and grumpy i'll have little or no understanding for the modern music at the time. But then, if that holds true, we gravitate back towards my thoughts of communication and we lose the aspect that soul is general and undependent, that it in fact needs a given set of parameters to achieve what it must do to exist.
Those parameters, I take it in this topic, is 90's detroit techno? and if so, like i said above; im not qualified to make anything more than educated guesses.
another reply like this and ill look like this
!
I don't think I'm qualified to make remarks about the 90's detroit stuff, but in my world, old techno soul is a term still relevant for todays music, only that today it is so extremely far (and increasingly so) between techno tracks that has soul. Soul to me is synonymous with confidence, fearlessness, integrity. Rejecting the given norms and moulding your own cosmos. Like the guys did back then. Like someone, every now and then does these days.
Soul to me couldn't be locked in a temporal space. Although now perhaps I am drifting away from what you intended the topic to be about.
Perhaps some aspects of soul are accessible only to people that was there, or in some other ways have the experience needed to communicate with the music - im dead sure that when I'm old and grumpy i'll have little or no understanding for the modern music at the time. But then, if that holds true, we gravitate back towards my thoughts of communication and we lose the aspect that soul is general and undependent, that it in fact needs a given set of parameters to achieve what it must do to exist.
Those parameters, I take it in this topic, is 90's detroit techno? and if so, like i said above; im not qualified to make anything more than educated guesses.
another reply like this and ill look like this
!