I am being very sympathetic to the ideas of Lawrence Lessig http://www.lessig.org/blog/
(I argues that culture should be free, and that proprietary systems harm cultural development. )
I believe to release free is one of the strengths netlabels have, as they are able to spearhead new music. It would be very risky to start charge people, download numbers may drop, worries about DRM, and greed kicks in.... just because you manage to raise $50 out of a release.
Netlabels should work on different models to cover costs and pay artists, raise money through physical products rather then digital culture. Being free is why netlabels have been so successful, would it not be silly to change exactly this?
But ultimately it is left to every ones choice, to stay free or not.
Paying netlabels?
wrongisabella wrote:well honestly i believe that the vast majority of people who have no access to the internet probably have no access either to an electronic music record store. or if they have acces to one i'm sure the catalog is very reduced. and there's no other way to get to those people but netlabels.minimal house wrote: What about the majority of people who have no access to the internet? There are people out there who have no idea what a net label is(try explaining to a naive person what a net label is). The only way for them to get the music is to buy records the old fashioned way.
i've been buying all sorts of strange and experimental records for a long time without any internet connection at all... it all depends on whether you have a good recordstore in your neighbourhood... i've had an internet connection for maybe 3 years now, before that i just went to the shop (and i still do)... i didn't miss out on any of electronic music, in fact 80% of what I have comes from the shop and not from the net... and i can assure you, my collection ois half experimental sh!t
don't forget, the netlabel thing is still very limited in some countries, many people still go to physical shops with crates and shop assistants...
yeah everyones situation is different, i live in the country in the UK and it's 100 miles to the nearest vinyl store which stocks quality electronic music, my friends buy all of their vinyl from the net.
i've also got friends who produce music who cant afford an internet connection.
one thing is for sure though, it wont be long before almost anyone on the planet will be able to access the internet easily.
i've also got friends who produce music who cant afford an internet connection.
one thing is for sure though, it wont be long before almost anyone on the planet will be able to access the internet easily.
ok id like to throw in my pennys worth on this subject:
personaly i have no problem with paying for music i like and wish to own, wether it be download, mp3, cd or vinyl format. i wouldnt favour any kind of label just on the fact they released the music cheaper or for free either, my loyalties rest on the power and effects of the actual music im checking out. most music isnt sold with great profits anyhow, a lot of good music just about makes a return on the production costs! and i dont see why net labels shouldnt be able to cover their costs too! and if they are succesful, then gain a little financial reward for artists etc, there is nothing wrong in this !
i cant understand that people expect music to be free! ??
and with the cost as a going concern them (for their such poverish lives they live aswell
) they seem happy to let quality music suffer due to our poverty fantasy!
people shouldnt expect there favourite music to be free, that has to be the decision of the artist or label.
as ive mentioned, there decision wouldnt phase me, if i liked the music, i would want to add it to my collection.
are we not music collectors anymore? or is cool to be a freeloader now?
i dont want to sound arrogant or burst anyones bubble either, but money (as fake as it seems) is an important factor for the advancement of electronic music culture !
why should drug dealers make all the money??
another point i have about net labels, they arnt so musicaly ground breaking as some like to make out, they arnt any more experimental or fwd thinking than a vinyl label, my personal record collection can prove this, i do download music but the bug hasnt infected me. infact my experiance of a lot of net releases should have made me dismiss it years ago but i refuse to be detered, i like to find new good music to listen to and play out, end of.
last point, i have noticed that a lot of people are lazy nowadays when it comes to finding new music, they expect it to fall on there lap(top) and jump down there internet chimney connection, but i dont reckon santa is into electronic music !
i know this comes down to a matter of taste but i have no problem finding those gems, and im not being biased now, but those gems for me, im finding on vinyl !
my favourite net label by the way is http://www.subsource.de
personaly i have no problem with paying for music i like and wish to own, wether it be download, mp3, cd or vinyl format. i wouldnt favour any kind of label just on the fact they released the music cheaper or for free either, my loyalties rest on the power and effects of the actual music im checking out. most music isnt sold with great profits anyhow, a lot of good music just about makes a return on the production costs! and i dont see why net labels shouldnt be able to cover their costs too! and if they are succesful, then gain a little financial reward for artists etc, there is nothing wrong in this !
i cant understand that people expect music to be free! ??
and with the cost as a going concern them (for their such poverish lives they live aswell
) they seem happy to let quality music suffer due to our poverty fantasy!people shouldnt expect there favourite music to be free, that has to be the decision of the artist or label.
as ive mentioned, there decision wouldnt phase me, if i liked the music, i would want to add it to my collection.
are we not music collectors anymore? or is cool to be a freeloader now?
i dont want to sound arrogant or burst anyones bubble either, but money (as fake as it seems) is an important factor for the advancement of electronic music culture !
why should drug dealers make all the money??
another point i have about net labels, they arnt so musicaly ground breaking as some like to make out, they arnt any more experimental or fwd thinking than a vinyl label, my personal record collection can prove this, i do download music but the bug hasnt infected me. infact my experiance of a lot of net releases should have made me dismiss it years ago but i refuse to be detered, i like to find new good music to listen to and play out, end of.
last point, i have noticed that a lot of people are lazy nowadays when it comes to finding new music, they expect it to fall on there lap(top) and jump down there internet chimney connection, but i dont reckon santa is into electronic music !
i know this comes down to a matter of taste but i have no problem finding those gems, and im not being biased now, but those gems for me, im finding on vinyl !
my favourite net label by the way is http://www.subsource.de
'adventitious roots'
hey Adhesif,
don't think it is a question whether netlabels are better or worse than traditional labels. question is if netlabels should start charging for their releases. (which I believe they should not, as it is a central characteristic of theirs.)
as for your argument, I don't think it matters which is better, fact is that both forms of music distribution have their advantages, and actually feed into each other.
don't think it is a question whether netlabels are better or worse than traditional labels. question is if netlabels should start charging for their releases. (which I believe they should not, as it is a central characteristic of theirs.)
as for your argument, I don't think it matters which is better, fact is that both forms of music distribution have their advantages, and actually feed into each other.
wotcha rad,rad wrote:hey Adhesif,
don't think it is a question whether netlabels are better or worse than traditional labels. question is if netlabels should start charging for their releases. (which I believe they should not, as it is a central characteristic of theirs.)
as for your argument, I don't think it matters which is better, fact is that both forms of music distribution have their advantages, and actually feed into each other.
i hope my post didnt sound as though i was comparing the formats, its not wot i meant, the question for me is simple though, as i said in my post, its 'YES' net labels should charge, atleast to cover site admin and pay artists etc. why is this an issue for people?,
realisticaly, the price of a download wont break the bank !
i dont think being free is a positive characteristic for any label either, the music is 'central' to any label ! and being free is always going to be popular to the masses! maybe some people dont want to commit themselves into electronic music culture, i dont know.
ofcourse, paying for music doesnt make it any better but if being 'free' is all net labels have going for them, well........ that doesnt buy me!
free distribution of music is always going to appeal and win hands down !
its like people going to a club and checking the price before they check the line up! wots that all about?
i dont know, maybe im a sucker, and brainwashed into parting with my hard earned cash for music on any format, but hey, i also receive a lot of free music on all formats, i dont expect this to be free to me ! so it evens out !
'adventitious roots'
that is probaly where I disagree, "free" is one of the central characteristics of Netlabels. But I believe netlabels do more than just offer free downloads - pleasing the masses.adhesif wrote: i dont think being free is a positive characteristic for any label either, the music is 'central' to any label ! and being free is always going to be popular to the masses!
for me it is about free flow of culture, deliberately breaking out of the commercial circle. it allows musicians to circulate new ideas, to build on each others work, cut/past/sample, accelerating cultural development. this mechanism will break down if people start charging.
second, being free makes life so much simpler. there are numerous platforms supporting hosting, podcasts, reviews, internet radios... what will happen if there will be cash involved? will I start sending sweets to some of the popular platforms, netlabel DJs? I doubt the currently thriving system will take this.
thirdly, just being opportunistic: as it is free, download of the music we release is at least tenfold greater than if we would charge. This gets the work of our artists out to a massive audience. most of artists we are working with has been offered commercial releases and gigs since they have released with After-Dinner, the quality and size of our own events has increased massively since we run the netlabel. so, even we work all for free and cover the costs with our pocket money, I don't think I am, or any of the musicians involved are loosing out, neither any of the traditional labels.
Saying all this, I believe it is every bodies right to choose his own way, decide whats best for him/her, and should be free to charge whatever he/she think is right... but should be upfront enough to call it online label, internet label or anyting similar, as the term "Netlabel" indicates free exchange within musicians and audiences - which is my personal opinion of course.
i can agree with wot your fundamentaly saying with regards to keeping the music free of compromising markets and the free flow of ideas, but i dont think its unique to net labels.rad wrote:that is probaly where I disagree, "free" is one of the central characteristics of Netlabels. But I believe netlabels do more than just offer free downloads - pleasing the masses.adhesif wrote: i dont think being free is a positive characteristic for any label either, the music is 'central' to any label ! and being free is always going to be popular to the masses!
for me it is about free flow of culture, deliberately breaking out of the commercial circle. it allows musicians to circulate new ideas, to build on each others work, cut/past/sample, accelerating cultural development. this mechanism will break down if people start charging.
second, being free makes life so much simpler. there are numerous platforms supporting hosting, podcasts, reviews, internet radios... what will happen if there will be cash involved? will I start sending sweets to some of the popular platforms, netlabel DJs? I doubt the currently thriving system will take this.
thirdly, just being opportunistic: as it is free, download of the music we release is at least tenfold greater than if we would charge. This gets the work of our artists out to a massive audience. most of artists we are working with has been offered commercial releases and gigs since they have released with After-Dinner, the quality and size of our own events has increased massively since we run the netlabel. so, even we work all for free and cover the costs with our pocket money, I don't think I am, or any of the musicians involved are loosing out, neither any of the traditional labels.
Saying all this, I believe it is every bodies right to choose his own way, decide whats best for him/her, and should be free to charge whatever he/she think is right... but should be upfront enough to call it online label, internet label or anyting similar, as the term "Netlabel" indicates free exchange within musicians and audiences - which is my personal opinion of course.
dont misunderstand me, im into netlabels, aslong as i like the music,
but the ideas and the culture they claim to be spearheading is nothing new, its just a different format, the sharing of artistic ideas etc is nothing new! the internet is a powerful tool but its just one tool available within the toolbox!
'adventitious roots'