I second the ''bullshit'' comment.
And what is groove anyway?
Does it mean the same to everybody
- an international language of sorts?
How do you get your groove
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NoAffiliation
- mnml mmbr
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:38 am
Re: How do you get your groove
groove is most definitely a natural feeling and some people will have a more innate ability to hear and feel the dynamic nuances of music because they are born with it in them.
even so, here comes the day of the computer to level the playing field. how does one go about taking that natural groove in themselves and get it into the computer? even if you have as much natural groove to hear something like the difference between 960 ad 480 ppqn, doesn't mean you can get on a set of drums or keys and rip it up, that takes dexterity which is a result of intense muscle training and practicing. so we who have groove but cannot play it like we feel need the computer or some technical aid to get us where we need to be. in this sense it's about tweaking until you connect with the groove inside yourself
i have a few tips in this respect:
- use different sequencers and map swing parameters to knobs and move them in real-time. in fl studio you actually have microtiming control for each sound with the offset knob. sometimes i map these to knobs, other times i just put an lfo on it to the sounds move in and out of the grid with each other.
-midi humanize is good too, FL studio again owns all DAW's when it comes to this. you can take a one bar kick loop and copy it to the timeline for 6 min and with 3 clicks of the mouse you have every one slightly off the grid
-hands on hardware step sequencers like maschine or an electribe for recording variations in real time. i typically jam out on my machinedrum or maschine on various parts and record the midi for like 7 min and then do a little tweaking and record the audio with the midi being sent there. say you play a single clap for the whole track length and vary it. when you do this for another sound you will naturally counterpoint what you did with the first sound and you can keep building like that.
i read a post by rob henke on ableton some time ago where he was talking about when people used all hardware midi sequencing there was a random delay of 1ms for every single note. there was also up to 10ms delay on synths when triggering internal voices
- my own self discovered tip (im sure others do it) is to apply the concept of a time lapse in video to the groove. say you had some loops, you can change where they start and end on the grid so you can literally "reset" time. very nice results can happen for the listener
lastly i think its imperative to render or record your individual stems before the mix. i use 3 daw's regularly including ableton and ive never had a stem render sample accurate. meaning i go in on each stem and trim the audio so it starts exactly on the first sample of the transient. ableton especially has shitty latency compensation for plugins, even their own native ones. render an audio track with erosion and you get a 5ms delay, is a repeatable known issue. ableton also will export your midi as only 96ppqn despite what resolution you zoom into in real time. they say its a feature but if you want really tight microtiming in ableton you need to record the channels and not render
even so, here comes the day of the computer to level the playing field. how does one go about taking that natural groove in themselves and get it into the computer? even if you have as much natural groove to hear something like the difference between 960 ad 480 ppqn, doesn't mean you can get on a set of drums or keys and rip it up, that takes dexterity which is a result of intense muscle training and practicing. so we who have groove but cannot play it like we feel need the computer or some technical aid to get us where we need to be. in this sense it's about tweaking until you connect with the groove inside yourself
i have a few tips in this respect:
- use different sequencers and map swing parameters to knobs and move them in real-time. in fl studio you actually have microtiming control for each sound with the offset knob. sometimes i map these to knobs, other times i just put an lfo on it to the sounds move in and out of the grid with each other.
-midi humanize is good too, FL studio again owns all DAW's when it comes to this. you can take a one bar kick loop and copy it to the timeline for 6 min and with 3 clicks of the mouse you have every one slightly off the grid
-hands on hardware step sequencers like maschine or an electribe for recording variations in real time. i typically jam out on my machinedrum or maschine on various parts and record the midi for like 7 min and then do a little tweaking and record the audio with the midi being sent there. say you play a single clap for the whole track length and vary it. when you do this for another sound you will naturally counterpoint what you did with the first sound and you can keep building like that.
i read a post by rob henke on ableton some time ago where he was talking about when people used all hardware midi sequencing there was a random delay of 1ms for every single note. there was also up to 10ms delay on synths when triggering internal voices
- my own self discovered tip (im sure others do it) is to apply the concept of a time lapse in video to the groove. say you had some loops, you can change where they start and end on the grid so you can literally "reset" time. very nice results can happen for the listener
lastly i think its imperative to render or record your individual stems before the mix. i use 3 daw's regularly including ableton and ive never had a stem render sample accurate. meaning i go in on each stem and trim the audio so it starts exactly on the first sample of the transient. ableton especially has shitty latency compensation for plugins, even their own native ones. render an audio track with erosion and you get a 5ms delay, is a repeatable known issue. ableton also will export your midi as only 96ppqn despite what resolution you zoom into in real time. they say its a feature but if you want really tight microtiming in ableton you need to record the channels and not render
Re: How do you get your groove
Silence?Ingemar wrote:agree with steevio, but also I would like to point out silence.
"4'33"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E
( "It was amazing" ) ( " The tension it created" ) Fvck off!
Re: How do you get your groove
Soz' but humour has to be experienced when silence is taken to the extreme no? Cage's stuff is odd, but this is just stupid. It's not new to me but thought I'd post it.
I agree with the above posts about groove, for me though, I like every part locked in to a template, unintentional flams and stuff like that really do my head in - and often, if it's a percussion kinda loop I have made on a synth and bounced it out , I find that swing percentages are not 'universal' That does my head in too, co's then I have to chop up the sequences I have made 'offline' so they can be given a new timing.
I vote for a standardisation of swing function. 25% swing, should be the same everywhere, across all apps/DAW's and fit chicks.
I agree with the above posts about groove, for me though, I like every part locked in to a template, unintentional flams and stuff like that really do my head in - and often, if it's a percussion kinda loop I have made on a synth and bounced it out , I find that swing percentages are not 'universal' That does my head in too, co's then I have to chop up the sequences I have made 'offline' so they can be given a new timing.
I vote for a standardisation of swing function. 25% swing, should be the same everywhere, across all apps/DAW's and fit chicks.
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RichardLodge
- mnml newbie
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:22 am
Re: How do you get your groove
Understand your point about standardised swing but a lot of the appeal of old drum machines is their unique swings. People want to use things like mpcs because they groove in a specific way.
Out of interest does anyone have a favorite groove/swing quantise they use. I'm sure i hear the logic 16D swing in a lot of current tunes.
Out of interest does anyone have a favorite groove/swing quantise they use. I'm sure i hear the logic 16D swing in a lot of current tunes.
Re: How do you get your groove
i fink AK woz joking.RichardLodge wrote:Understand your point about standardised swing but a lot of the appeal of old drum machines is their unique swings. People want to use things like mpcs because they groove in a specific way.
Out of interest does anyone have a favorite groove/swing quantise they use. I'm sure i hear the logic 16D swing in a lot of current tunes.
every tune requires its own personal swing dont you reckon ?
infact each part in the track could easily have its own swing, and in really good funk music it does.
then the flams are not unintentional.
the old machine grooves that are popular, are so because they are good, but dont you get tired of the same shuffles after a while ? its like every other other generic trait, they get overused.
but they work.
Re: How do you get your groove
Yeah, I was a bit stoned last night lads, kinda run away on tangents and sh!t. Joking aside, I actually am quite meticulous when it comes to timing, I'm pretty down with all that and I'm happy with my management of it. It's something I've put a lot of effort into over the years so I know how to do what I want to do kinda thing.
Timing is just so important for me.
Timing is just so important for me.
Re: How do you get your groove
something i've been thinking about recently whilst listening to 2562's fever is that he creates a lot of groove by splitting up a swung/shuffled rhythm between quite contrasting percussive sounds. his panning is also meticulous, in general he is just badman when it comes to drum programming. i know it's obvious but i don't think it's been mentioned yet; tuning your drums, and then taking that further and creating subtle melodies between percussive elements.