Do you ever think about unlearning?

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oblioblioblio
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Post by oblioblioblio »

AK wrote:Thats an interesting point made by Dusk, its not something Ive ever thought about to be honest. Maybe the edges between those things are blurry? Maybe theres a feeling with some that the technicalities actually get in the way of flowing creativity? I really dont know.

Without reading any of this, I would have just assumed what was applicable to me, would be applicable to others. Clearly thats not the case.

Do people want to make music for any particular goal? I know I couldnt give a monkeys about whether anything is released or not, and I have no drive to make any financial gain. Obviously if that was there it would be a bonus but its not my agenda or driving force. I am into making music because, quite frankly, I have to. I'd say, ever since I could remember, I'd have to have a creative pursuit. Started with art, then went through breakdancing/grafitti art and thats when I first dabbled in music. I found it way more satisfying than painting and it opened up a new world of creative freedom and exitement. That feeling is still there, Im as much excited by music now as day 1.

I didnt have the best of childhoods and I think I associate creativity with escapism and to gain a feeling of self worth and achievement, I can say with absolute certainty that if I felt I was no longer feeling creative with music, I'd be off doing something else to satisfy that part of me. Fortunately, it hasnt happened. I love music, its become an integral part of me now. This period of rebuilding a set up has left me without the ability to make stuff and its not easy or funny. Its like Ive lost somebody and im grieving. Sounds like a nut job thing but im serious.
I think it can be dangerous to try to categorise like that... I think you just have to try to be kinda happy in the moment, and take comfort from the process, and try to make it work for others as a finished piece. I don't want to encourage lazyness, staleness, or arrogance. But that expectation of beyond.. like people using words like visionaries. I think you gotta keep it on a human day to day kinda level. I dunno.

I often lived in a music world too for escapist reasons. It's nice to do something positive with that skill. :) Hope you get your set up going again soon.
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Dusk
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Post by Dusk »

AK wrote:I am into making music because, quite frankly, I have to. I'd say, ever since I could remember, I'd have to have a creative pursuit. Started with art, then went through breakdancing/grafitti art and thats when I first dabbled in music. I found it way more satisfying than painting and it opened up a new world of creative freedom and exitement.
Again, that's really nice to hear and makes complete and utter sense. That's how it SHOULD be. You use electronic equipment to express yourself, and your expression is no less true or genuine for it being channelled through discrete circuits and digital calculations.

I'm not even sure that the music I make is wholly mine. It feels as though it belongs to the computer and the equipment I use as much as me. Almost as if every creative possibility the computer has given me, it has claimed a part of my music in return.

As bizarre and HR Geiger-esque as that sounds, I guess that's what I'm trying to say :lol:
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Post by AK »

@ obli, i didnt understand what you were getting at in that 1st paragraph, it was a bit random/cryptic. Categorize what exactly and how do you mean dangerous? Im also a little unsure about the, 'have to make it work for others as a finished piece' bit? Is that in response to something I said? Sorry, I just had no idea what you were talking about as you quoted me but said stuff totally unrelated to what I said.

@ Dusk, I dont know if it's related but I have had to get rid of my computer based set up, not so much because of any reasons you said there as I havent experienced those but more of a distraction. I had a predominantly hardware set up before that grew to software sequencing, that grew to being pretty much totally itb. I was stupid enough to allow my pc for music to also be my pc for internet use too and that ended up being too much of a distraction.

I never had the same type of relationship with any bit of software as I did with hardware. The sheer amount of stuff available both in terms of freeware and 'evaluation ware' made me a hoarder. Id just end up with option paralysis and didnt really fully explore what I was using. There was just too much sh!t in my vst plugin folder to learn in a single lifetime.

Thats obviously my fault but Id feel I was potentially missing out on something if I didnt have it, it ended up just getting crazy. Aside from that, Id just end up getting distracted too, Id start browsing the net midway through writing something or end up on msn. I tried using 2 pc's and having one for the net but that didnt work for me.

In practical terms, I dont think I ever really clicked with software sequencing either. When Ableton live came along, that non linear approach it has got me excited for a while but the lack of a connection with what I was using kinda made me long for a whole different approach. Its just not for me I guess.

Ive come to the conclusion that in order to remain creative, the gear you are using has to function as an extention of yourself to some degree. By that I mean, a connection. For me that means a physical connection, a hands on relationship without all the distractions.

I dunno if you have ever had that, 'in the zone' thing? Like you get so absorbed in the creative moment that you are oblivious to everything, you glance at the clock and you realise that like 4hrs have just passed in the last 10 minutes. Software stole that from me and it took a lot of my creativity with it. I think if you feel like you have lost something, its important to look at all areas of your approach and set up, it might not be as drastic as mine where Im starting again from the ground up but if you know how youd rather be working, you can focus on removing the things that are getting in the way.
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Post by oblioblioblio »

AK wrote:@ obli, i didnt understand what you were getting at in that 1st paragraph, it was a bit random/cryptic. Categorize what exactly and how do you mean dangerous? Im also a little unsure about the, 'have to make it work for others as a finished piece' bit? Is that in response to something I said? Sorry, I just had no idea what you were talking about as you quoted me but said stuff totally unrelated to what I said.
I was mainly saying about thinking about the categorisation of a technician and visionary, which Dusk mentioned, which you referred to somewhat. I think it's dangerous to think about things like that, as a musician. In some ways it's more comfortable to me, to think about how the artist probably needed to take a sh!t, some time before or after creating their best work. Rather than think of them with halos shining around them and some magic gift. And I was saying that it's just good to get on with things

Sorry, my post wasn't actually that related to a lot of the post that you made, and I just quoted the whole lot and it might have been a touch confusing.

I should try to communicate more effectively. I think somewhere along the line I got annoyed not being able to communicate and just decided to be kinda freeform and hope for the best, especially on forums. But I don't want to be alienating.
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Post by oblioblioblio »

AK wrote:I dunno if you have ever had that, 'in the zone' thing? Like you get so absorbed in the creative moment that you are oblivious to everything, you glance at the clock and you realise that like 4hrs have just passed in the last 10 minutes. Software stole that from me and it took a lot of my creativity with it. I think if you feel like you have lost something, its important to look at all areas of your approach and set up, it might not be as drastic as mine where Im starting again from the ground up but if you know how youd rather be working, you can focus on removing the things that are getting in the way.
I think this is quite significant. (thought I'd take a break from just talking into thin air and respond properly to other people thoughts.. y'know, like conversation I think it's called? :) )

yeah. anyways. For me, this is quite crucial... I started using the artist name Diffuse, cos I like this concept. You could call it dissapearing, but also it's kind of like completing a circuit and you're part of a bigger machine humming away. No way to describe it without sounding corny, and in many ways trying to describe it takes it out of that connectivity.

In some ways I've grown to accept the human limitations in making music... I don't think you'll ever fully comprehend the full weight of a piece as it's "creator"... I think artists are humans too, and personally I find it hard to accept that an artist is responsible for every molecule of goodness perceived in their work. (Although I think you should strive to find methods that are conducive to good crceative work.)

I've had some reasonbly interesting results from pushing myself across sleep patterns and just jumping head first into making music. I can get kinda lost in the process, in a way that I find productive.

I have always been fascinated by other musicians, and their methods. It is really crucial, the space that you develop for allowing your music to grow. I like this excert from an interview with Jeff Mangum of Neutral Milk Hotel who's last album is a majestic surreal tapestry of human experience. Lyrically and musically astonishing, gripping, alive, haunting.

"Pitchfork: Does your music stem from dreams and visions sometimes?

Jeff: Yes. I spend a lot of time practicing active imagination before I go to sleep. What I'm feeling will manifest as images through active imagination. And then I go to sleep and those play out even more in my dreams.

Pitchfork: What is "active imagination"?

Jeff: It's a Carl Jung term. It's sort of staying in that place between sleeping and waking. Just allowing your mind to completely begin to flow with images. Allowing it to become whatever it becomes. You know, you go to bed filled with worries and thoughts, caught up in that everyday kind of thing. With this, you try to concentrate on what you think is really important, or some type of interesting or mysterious image, and then allow your imagination to become like a stream. You can let the stream go, and just observe it to see what happens.

I've always been interested in recording other people's dreams. A lot of people are. You heard the montage piece. I'm trying to create a dream world with the montage. It's like when you look at a Dada or surrealist montage-- I just love taking fragments from everyday reality and recombining them. Everything in the natural world is so amazing, but because we're used to seeing it in one way we take it for granted. We can see an anthill or a roach or a flower or anything, but we have this frame where our mind recognizes an anthill and then moves on, without taking the opportunity to have the sense of awe that we could have if we really looked at it. The montage is about taking pieces of reality and rearranging them-- creating new frames to make you have to stop and look at things in a fresh way. It's basically taking pieces of everyday reality and rearranging them to show people the magic that is inherent in all of these things already.

Pitchfork: Is this reframing process something you use in your songwriting in general? Do the songs come out of fragments?

Jeff: Yeah, usually I create tunes that are fragmented. I think the biggest obstacle for people with their creativity is that they feel they have to sit down and create this finished, polished product. Especially nowadays, it's so easy to have a library of two thousand CDs, books and records. So many things. We're used to having all of these finished works of art in our life that seem to arise out of nothing. I think that so much of the creative process is a fragmentary one, and then it's about just allowing your intuition to put it together for you. It's funny how you create something and you think you're going in a million different directions, and then the thing you end up with is the thing that you wanted to create your whole life, but you're just as surprised by it as anybody else.

Pitchfork: The songs start out fragmented-- do they still feel fragmented at the end?

Jeff: No, typically there are little fragments of specific words and images swimming around in my mind, and then at some point, I'll sit down with the guitar and everything will fall into place. It's like your brain is a drain with a bunch of words and images dropping into it, swirling around. The drain is stopped up, but you can feel these things dropping into it. Then at some point, someone comes along and pulls the plug out of the drain and everything goes [loud slurping, sucking noise] and comes together in the song.



"
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Post by steevio »

^^^

beautifully illustrating the fact that we are all on our own trip.
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Post by ::BLM:: »

Do people want to make music for any particular goal? I know I couldnt give a monkeys about whether anything is released or not, and I have no drive to make any financial gain. Obviously if that was there it would be a bonus but its not my agenda or driving force. I am into making music because, quite frankly, I have to. I'd say, ever since I could remember, I'd have to have a creative pursuit.
Yeah me too. When I first started making music I never thought about any goal. I had tried to learn a range of instruments, but i never stuck at anything. making electronic music stuck and ever since then I have been making music. The passion grew quickly and then it started to take over my life :lol:

I never thought about releasing stuff untill someone asked me to do a release. it was always just fun for me, but then it changed. I still dont make music for labels, but once they are done and about a year later once im sure I put them out.
I dunno if you have ever had that, 'in the zone' thing? Like you get so absorbed in the creative moment that you are oblivious to everything, you glance at the clock and you realise that like 4hrs have just passed in the last 10 minutes
oh yes. my gf comes in behind me and scares the sh!t out of me. she talks in my ear and it makes me jump so much. i have asked her not to do it, but she wont stop :lol:
Last edited by ::BLM:: on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by blizt »

AK wrote: Over the last 12 months I have probably listened to more Bossanova than techno. I don't know why cos I really like techno, I just find it hard to actually find stuff that I like.
Same here. Interesting topic. All I have to say is that i learned lots in my beginning stage from copying other peoples bassdrums, percussions, etc. Like how one element relates to another and stuff like that. This was really useful in understanding the basics principles of making beats.
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