Producing Berghain techno?

[bkm1978]

..ok so I felt bad and reloaded the session onto the HD. I felt bad lol.

The delay is the internal delay for Battery, didnt even think of it. So yeah its ping pong delay with about 80 per cent dampening of the delayed signal.

Reverbs: Multiple. But as I suspected above. Cutoff around 8khz. Predelay of about 20. 3-4 secs tail. High diffusion.

That percussive delayed sound is the toms fed to ping pong delay which is fed through a modulating BP filter. The delay time is also modulated.

So in essence, its really about experimenting, building walls of sound that work well and my advice would be automation automation automation. Keep the track moving, keep it alive, keep it modulating and mutating.

[ICN]

Wow - Thats more than I honestly expected. Cool. Appreciate you going on a hunt. LOL


You've got L5? Do you have Enverb?

You can make some pretty insane sounding stuff with that little Plug. Sticking the Wet to 100% can be good in an fx chain, just move the audio/midi around the arrange to find the spot. Can sound really cool with the kick off a Sidechain hitting it. Love reverbs. You can take a single hit & make something huge & a million miles away from what it sounded like originally. Throw some distortion +/or another reverb/whatever & then (try to.. ) EQ out the sh!t.

Space Designer is in L9 (Mac obviously..) and its got some crazy warped IR reverbs in it. I've often heard of people sticking in random audio into IR's for fx.. and though I've never done it myself, its something that I'm definitely going to try.

Totally get what you are saying about the delay & the actual pattern behind it. Less is more. I suppose what I was trying (badly) to describe when I said "Falling apart" - were the loose, grooving delays. Dont take me literally.. Haha!

Dumb Q - but do you take the sync off the delay & then automate the wet?


Just to let you know Ben, I'll buy your track this evo when I get home Mate. 100% Support.

Great to see you recommending Experimenting. I've honestly found out far more stuff doing exactly that. I'm pushing myself to make mental sounds that stand out.. Thank fck for happy accidents. Essential to get pointers though nonetheless. We could be floundering around in the dark forever if we didnt know that there was a lightswitch!

Appreciate it all again Ben. Have a good day / evening / night down there!

Cheers,

J

[bkm1978]

Wow - Thats more than I honestly expected. Cool. Appreciate you going on a hunt. LOL


You've got L5? Do you have Enverb?

You can make some pretty insane sounding stuff with that little Plug. Sticking the Wet to 100% can be good in an fx chain, just move the audio/midi around the arrange to find the spot. Can sound really cool with the kick off a Sidechain hitting it. Love reverbs. You can take a single hit & make something huge & a million miles away from what it sounded like originally. Throw some distortion +/or another reverb/whatever & then (try to.. ) EQ out the sh!t.

Space Designer is in L9 (Mac obviously..) and its got some crazy warped IR reverbs in it. I've often heard of people sticking in random audio into IR's for fx.. and though I've never done it myself, its something that I'm definitely going to try.

Totally get what you are saying about the delay & the actual pattern behind it. Less is more. I suppose what I was trying (badly) to describe when I said "Falling apart" - were the loose, grooving delays. Dont take me literally.. Haha!

Dumb Q - but do you take the sync off the delay & then automate the wet?


Just to let you know Ben, I'll buy your track this evo when I get home Mate. 100% Support.

Great to see you recommending Experimenting. I've honestly found out far more stuff doing exactly that. I'm pushing myself to make mental sounds that stand out.. Thank fck for happy accidents. Essential to get pointers though nonetheless. We could be floundering around in the dark forever if we didnt know that there was a lightswitch!

Appreciate it all again Ben. Have a good day / evening / night down there!

Cheers,

J

Cheers man

Yeah I've got Enverb Not played with it much so thanks for the tip!

With regards to the delay pattern. Sometimes I will turn the sync off yeah. I would say I automate the delay time, more so than the wet/dry mix. It can be real cool to have ya delay just out of kilter and slowly bring it right into time to help lock the groove at the right moment in the track. With that track specifically I am pretty sure the delay pattern is just set to 8th or quater notes but the actual dry hats pattern that I wrote is a 12ths pattern, am sure there is a better way to describe it musically, my theory aint that up to scratch

[mlexicon]

my opinion is that if you dont have a strong vision with what you want for yourself as a sound...its going to rarely be good.

if your just after the "Berghain sound" cause it sounds good to you...i think your missing a big part of the reasoning behind the sound....which makes certain works that much more enjoyable.

Emulation is nice, but at some point your going to have to catch up to what the intent is and move beyond it and make your own universe.

[coldfuture]

my opinion is that if you dont have a strong vision with what you want for yourself as a sound...its going to rarely be good.

if your just after the "Berghain sound" cause it sounds good to you...i think your missing a big part of the reasoning behind the sound....which makes certain works that much more enjoyable.

Emulation is nice, but at some point your going to have to catch up to what the intent is and move beyond it and make your own universe.

All the masters "painted the masters" when learning to paint.

One was not even on the map until one could emulate perfectly. Once one could, then intent and vision could be discussed. Until then you were just a hanger on looking to be a part of a scene you were never going to join.

I see no reason why it cant be the same with techno.

People talk about originality like they are going to be the next Pierre and Phuture or Underground Resistance. Those days are long gone when people were shooting in the dark trying to make mechanical disco on cheap drum machines.

All techno has a context of techno now, it is unavoidable.

This is one of the best threads on this whole damn site simply because its involved discussing loads of technique and the giving and taking of feedback around a loose artistic movement of return to a certain golden sound of techno.

This can only be a good thing, and everyone here who is collaborating and sharing and giving feedback is a real artist.

The kumbaya "look for originality in your own soul" postmodern drivel would be best posted somewhere else in a proper discussion about mission and ethos. This thread is named after "Berghain" techno for a reason.

I, for one, am inspired that since this thread started many of us have been pushing ourselves to get better and posting about it instead of posting about some meta-physical nothing related to the inward journey.

[mlexicon]

my opinion is that if you dont have a strong vision with what you want for yourself as a sound...its going to rarely be good.

if your just after the "Berghain sound" cause it sounds good to you...i think your missing a big part of the reasoning behind the sound....which makes certain works that much more enjoyable.

Emulation is nice, but at some point your going to have to catch up to what the intent is and move beyond it and make your own universe.

All the masters "painted the masters" when learning to paint.

One was not even on the map until one could emulate perfectly. Once one could, then intent and vision could be discussed. Until then you were just a hanger on looking to be a part of a scene you were never going to join.

I see no reason why it cant be the same with techno.

People talk about originality like they are going to be the next Pierre and Phuture or Underground Resistance. Those days are long gone when people were shooting in the dark trying to make mechanical disco on cheap drum machines.

All techno has a context of techno now, it is unavoidable.

This is one of the best threads on this whole damn site simply because its involved discussing loads of technique and the giving and taking of feedback around a loose artistic movement of return to a certain golden sound of techno.

This can only be a good thing, and everyone here who is collaborating and sharing and giving feedback is a real artist.

The kumbaya "look for originality in your own soul" postmodern drivel would be best posted somewhere else in a proper discussion about mission and ethos. This thread is named after "Berghain" techno for a reason.

I, for one, am inspired that since this thread started many of us have been pushing ourselves to get better and posting about it instead of posting about some meta-physical nothing related to the inward journey.

i guess i was really replying to one of the posters saying that emulation would lead to stagnation. In the end you do what feels good to you, but for me ive found a richer experience making music when I have a specific goal in my mind.

[ICN]

Just to refer to the whole Chicken/Egg - Original Humans Vs. Copy Cats debate:

The Berghain thing.. Its just a name. We all really mean, Dark, Deep, Dubby, Abstract Techno. Berghain is probably easier to say.

Personally, I'm only interested in how techno is getting more abstract. Its a sound design challenge. I dont see the type of Music that I want to make as being "Berghain" - I simply see it as wishing to make something thats more edgy or abstract, thats all. Thats the type of music that has always clicked with me.. and what I have always tried to surround myself with, whether it was playing in bands or buying records, or making tracks.

Why does Software & Hardware come with Manuals? Why do we have schools? Why bother with the educational system at all? If someone wanted to be a Surgeon, should they figure it all out themselves? Plumbers, Electricians and Carpenters learn through apprenticeships. Everyone gets X amount of training from the 1st day of a new Job. People cook from Recipe Books. Who teaches you how to drive? Anyone here ever got their 1st Sex Tips from Pornos? or Lads Mags?


So - Will the guilty please line up? How many Bullets do we need?

Mentors / Apprenticeship / Craftmanship / Training / Supervising / Feedback etc.. have all been in existance since the beginning of the Human Race.

As VJ said back there - its just an open discussion of current production techniques. A few posts on some cool ideas does not a genre make. But the View count on this Thread - 17000+ & counting proves that its a popular subject. However, its worrying that so many people are observing without participating, as that only delays everyones progress in the end.

Its a shame more people dont contribute - or even register to say thanks.But y'know, People have jobs.. A Family.. Money Issues. Its difficult to live the dream when you only have a few hours in the evening. Everyone is passionate, but time is scarce & the infomation we need is scattered - so I can understand & appreciate the reasons.

Theres obviously no easy Pill.

Anyway - We all 100% agree that no-one should underestimate the power of practice. The key to a good production is experience. That bit will take time. However, in the meantime - its fantastic getting to find out about new things that spark creativity. No-one with a Soul wants to copy anyone. We all just want to make our ideas sound a little better. The fact that were here communicating with eachother must count for something genuine.

Thats my last serious post here. Back to the Thread. LOL

[ICN]

Cheers man

Yeah I've got Enverb Not played with it much so thanks for the tip!

With regards to the delay pattern. Sometimes I will turn the sync off yeah. I would say I automate the delay time, more so than the wet/dry mix. It can be real cool to have ya delay just out of kilter and slowly bring it right into time to help lock the groove at the right moment in the track. With that track specifically I am pretty sure the delay pattern is just set to 8th or quater notes but the actual dry hats pattern that I wrote is a 12ths pattern, am sure there is a better way to describe it musically, my theory aint that up to scratch

Sweet.

Been messing around with it, with just a couple of hits here & there, just getting the feel for it. Also trying it on longer single sounds/noises to get a bit of movement going. Really cool. I think I've got a bit of messing around yet to do until I get what you did down.. but I've come up with some interesting stuff in the meantime that I'm happy with. Thats what its all about!

Dont know how many times I've started trying to do something else & come up with something entirely different like that. Its class getting to grips with sh!t like that. Thats normally the way it ends up.

Thanks again Ben. Btw.. Not sh!tting ya Man, but I think your RMX is better than the original. Theirs didnt really jump out at me tbh. The Berkovi track is good too. Didnt know he was still making records.

Are you moving into making darker stuff like that now yourself? The sound of that compared to your other tracks on Beatport are quite different. Just wondering if you developing your sound more.

Know what you mean about the 12th Patterns. Its good doing stuff with different time signatures. Same thing with just one hit, or a short roll or something in a unevened bar Midi Pattern.. then drag that over the arrange.. even just for 16 or 32bars. It can just add a different vibe to the whole rhythm. Remove what conflicts with other bits if theres a problem with anything. My Theory aint the best either, but what you are probably getting (Correct me if I'm wrong - possibly am..) is like 3/4, 5/4 7/4 or 9/4 or 11/4 or 13/4. You'll end up with an odd amount at the end of the 16th or 32nd bar, but then you start it from the start again, so it dont matter. Again, placing the sound in the right place helps. Less is more.

Do you have Ultrabeat in L5? I find the step sequencer really good in it for doing stuff like that. Funny length bars on hats is great. Keep changing until it sounds good. I'm sure theres plenty of Step Sequencers on PC that you could use anyway.

Its Polyrhythms, isnt it? It can make a real straight beat really interesting. Cool used on a single stab or main sound.

I use Logic 9 & have a Novation Nocturn. I've got it in DAW mode, so I can do mutes & fades. Recently I've been getting a the main elements all sorted in 8 / 16bar loop, whatever.. and stretching them out for the entire length of the track that I want - just to start. I've got a filter on the Kick & have it automated at certain bits to take it out as a break, or delete regions where I want to leave a space.. and have something to aim for.

Then I'll Jam with the Nocturn & get the general basis of the structure of the track. I'll record all the fades / mutes etc.. & tidy them all up afterwards. Then add whatever. Its odd, cos I've stopped fixating on how the whole thing "sounds" now.. and am more interested in enjoying the vibe of the music. Its more of a performance & I can hear the feeing in it. Also great for hitting upon ideas & arrangements that you wouldnt have done by mouse alone.

I'd recommend it for anyone who is stuck with 8 bars.

Always loads of Nocturns going cheap 2nd hand cos people though they were going to get a "Hardware - Software Synth". I dont think they are good for that. IMO they come into their own with jamming.