A few common mistakes.....

Torque · Post by **Torque** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:18 pm

tone-def wrote:i've been looking at some record grooves and it seems i can see the breakdowns on both european and american records. but some of the european records had darker looking breakdown.

Yeah they use that machine allot here too but there's a different standard eq curve set by the RIAA here than there is in europe. Like i said the majority of places use them.

Spurn · Post by **Spurn** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:34 pm

you know, its funny, i read computer music sometimes, and they did this special issue on how to fix your mix, with tons of tips on eqing and doing mixdowns and stuff like that. and i was on the train going to work one morning reading through one of their tutorials about mastering and they kept adding compression plugins and limiters and stuff to all different parts and channels to the mix. and then when they were done theyre wrote something like 'now the mix sounds louder, but it probably would sound better if you just turned the levels up!'

i was like WTF!? i wouldve been really pissed off if i had actually been on my computer following their steps for them to end with just saying the mix wouldve sounded better just turned up. X_____X

Brankis · Post by **Brankis** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:43 pm

wow, i am surprised to hear the loudness war thing is getting worse!

from what i'd been reading on various sites, it seemed like there was actually a trend developing against the loudness war now that its such a publicized/mainstream issue in the audio world. i guess thats not the case

i also think the beatport player kind of "lies" about what a track sounds like. ive had tracks sound completely different on the 320 mp3 as to what I heard in the player for better or worse.

recently on beatport it seemed like this loudness war thing was the most widespread by far in the minimal section, especially the charted stuff. really really bad sounding. if you notice though, most of the deep house stuff sounds pretty damn slick and other genres are not nearly as bad as minimal. My logic for this is that the minimal genre on Beatport is probably full of releases from people with the least musical experience and training.

i agree with pretty much everything said in the original post

Spurn · Post by **Spurn** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:49 pm

yeah the issue of cm i mentioned actual says something like "winning the loudness war" on it either on the cover or in one of the articles. i think thats stupid and am definitely on the side of less loud tracks and keeping more of the dynamics of the track intact. and i can also definitely see more people joining that mindframe and the whole trend of the loudness war dying down, at least a bit.

tone-def · Post by **tone-def** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:51 pm

Brankis wrote: recently on beatport it seemed like this loudness war thing was the most widespread by far in the minimal section, especially the charted stuff. really really bad sounding. if you notice though, most of the deep house stuff sounds pretty damn slick and other genres are not nearly as bad as minimal. My logic for this is that the minimal genre on Beatport is probably full of releases from people with the least musical experience and training.

i agree with pretty much everything said in the original post

when i got into minimal it was never about who could make the loudest most banging track. minimal has become a joke. not much i like these days.

Torque · Post by **Torque** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:12 am

You can have something be loud as hell and still sound good but in order to do that you have to be able to mix your record really well. These guys at the top can afford professional engineers who really know how to get the sh!t in there without killing the dynamics. Allot of them also use some outboard equipment that none of us on this board can most likely afford. Your computer is not going to even be in the same league with a Neve or a SSL mixing board. Allot of them are using top quality A/D convertors to get the sound into pro tools and top quality D/A convertors to run the sound out into one of these top mixing boards and then mixing and recording the final mix from the board. Nobody here has the kind of money they need to do that sh!t unless they are already selling hit after hit and playing all over the world every weekend. So if you can't play the game on that level yet just make sure it's mixed down as good as you can get it and let it be at a lower volume so it still sounds good and let the dj turn up the gain. If you try to shortcut up to that loudness level you're just going to kill the dynamics totally and end up with just a noisy overcompressed piece of sh!t. There is no shortcut to great sound, there never has been and there never will be.

miro pajic · Post by **miro pajic** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:32 am

tone-def wrote: when i got into minimal it was never about who could make the loudest most banging track. minimal has become a joke. not much i like these days.

there IS still high quality stuff out there. unfortunately not dominating the top 50 mainstream minimal.

Torque wrote: You can have something be loud as hell and still sound good but in order to do that you have to be able to mix your record really well. These guys at the top can afford professional engineers who really know how to get the sh!t in there without killing the dynamics. Allot of them also use some outboard equipment that none of us on this board can most likely afford. Your computer is not going to even be in the same league with a Neve or a SSL mixing board. Allot of them are using top quality A/D convertors to get the sound into pro tools and top quality D/A convertors to run the sound out into one of these top mixing boards and then mixing and recording the final mix from the board. Nobody here has the kind of money they need to do that sh!t unless they are already selling hit after hit and playing all over the world every weekend. So if you can't play the game on that level yet just make sure it's mixed down as good as you can get it and let it be at a lower volume so it still sounds good and let the dj turn up the gain. If you try to shortcut up to that loudness level you're just going to kill the dynamics totally and end up with just a noisy overcompressed piece of sh!t. There is no shortcut to great sound, there never has been and there never will be.

everything is accecable for everybody - big problem!
many tools "invite" you to (ab)use them and people believe it's "that easy" to just over compress to get close to top notch mixed music (which is loud for other reasons than having -9dB gain reduction on the limiter)

i don't think that's it's all about using ableton or mixing on an SSL. but the easier you have access to things, the more you attract people that also wanna play. things are starting to take a different route.
IF you know your tools and use them well and have the talent + skills, you can achieve superb quality just ITB (i guess it's often people who actually come from the analog world and know what it sounds like and do their best to achieve quality)

about the loudness:
i can compare this whole thing to when, in around 1993 techno split up to hardcore, gabber and all the other endless sub genres. it was about: now, who's faster, louder, has a harder kickdrum and is more distorted. as i said before: it's a dck measuring contest. a contest that's steering away from what everything is or was about. (good music, quality, excitement, art, groove, techniques etc.) = adolescent behaviour.

last check at minimal top 100 was absolutely SHOCKING!!!! there was even 1 track, that was SOOOOO freaking distorted....it was twice as loud as other, already loud tracks.....hi-la-rious!!! how could it be in the minimal section at all? crazy!

action is more worth than preaching though. make quality stuff instead of speaking how it should be done. release quality (which can be loud) and do your best to be successfull with it - it will contribute more than words.

peace

Roqqert · Post by **Roqqert** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:03 pm

i know another one

sh!t in = sh!t out

doesnt matter how much u liked that particular sound .. if its sh!t in the mix, its sh!t in the mix... Delete it and find something else.

Don't stick too much with your starting samples... just refresh and dare to delete sh!t u started with.