Sebo K from his recent interview on RA

[Roqqert]

Audience, artist and industry are making borders these days. The more populair dance music will be easy found. People aren't used to digging anymore. I buy 1 or 2 records a month.... to me those are classics.... i won't pay for 10 tracks that has a date of 2 weeks..

that's just me thinkin

[Del]

pfff, the only problem imho is that a lot of people want to be rich/famous/whatever and so they just make the music that is the hype of the moment. Like for the moment everyone seems to be into that Cecile/8bit stuff, so producers are plundering every house / disco / funk track they can find and stick a 4/4 beat under it, et voila. Or the Cadenza stuff of course.
And there's nothing wrong with that. If you're a dj, you can decide for yourself if you want to play that style too or you can buy the things you really like and develope your own style. Or do both. I always cringe when people seem to want to confine dance music to rules and tricks. There are no rules. There are no boundaries. That's just what drew me to the whole thing in the first place.

The same goes for producing: lots of people just want to make money and make whatever the style of the hype is, but a lot of people make music because they feel it, and don't give a toss if it sells 1 or 1000 copies. And that's often the corner where the good stuff is. Or where music takes a step forward.

So, if Sebo K is not happy with the stuff he plays, maybe he should just get off the couch and dive into the records at his local store, or on decks, or beatport, whatever! SO many great records are out there, having been made and still being made as we speak, so why settle for playing average stuff? I can't believe that you would play night after night and say afterwards "this was again a dj set best forgotten fast". really find that strange. I think somewhere he started confusing the "music" with "the industry".

+1

[camus]

why can't jazz and techno be compared?

or why would someone be crazy to compare them?

again it depends on what you call jazz and what you call techno.And what we are comparing.

jazz ranges from blues to what hancock did , blending jazz with funk or electronic music ( i'm not into free experimental sh!t ... though i like KK.null and a little bit of John Zorn)

techno , is techno , it is far more easier to define it, it is automatic music.

give someone a 909 and he'll be making techno in a breeze , give the same person a piano and tell him to play jazz improvise on a chord progression live, well , it may be more difficult , in a nutshell that is my point.

but if Pheek can relate his electronic work to Miles Davis one , let him talk about it ...

Now you can talk about Henri Shwartz or Christian Prommer ,but they were jazzmen before being house producers ... and they have the skills

You can also talk about Carl Craig's work, or Garnier, but i'm not sure that they are the one laying down chord progressions live or in their records ... or even playing the drums


i ('m trying to) produce "techno" myself , i see my music as a tool for djs nothing else , and for that purpose it has a rigid design. but of course , i could vary the tempo in the same track from 90 bpm to 140 like hancock , get rids of the 4 on the floor pattern and try 7/4 , use a real dry kick drum instead of a 909 , and playing the piano on the top of it freestyle ...

but that would not be techno anymore ...yet i wouldn't dare calling it jazz anyway , i find it very insulting toward actual jazz musician.

I think techno producers often over rate their work , seeing themselves as genius , pioneers or whatever , i just think we may reconsider the importance , the range of our work ... we are here only because of technology , computer ease and automation.

[PsyTox]

I think techno producers often over rate their work , seeing themselves as genius , pioneers or whatever , i just think we may reconsider the importance , the range of our work ... we are here only because of technology , computer ease and automation.

techno could just as easily be made on classic instruments, and just as it takes practice to learn to play piano, it'll take you time to learn how to get proper sounding techno out of a range of hard- or software. Techno is NOT just techno and saying that "anyone" can make techno is just a comment from people who look down upon something because they haven't fully grasped what it is. It's easier to ridicule something you don't understand.

I think many jazz parts are also overrated, often jazz is just arty farty improvisation by a bunch of (often high) people. But I don't dismiss it as being easy, or simple, or 'inferior'. There are tracks in there that give me goosebumps every single time, and that goes for many styles. All these discussions ultimately have the same reason: there's 99% crap in music, and 1% of great gems. And it takes effort and time and an open mind to sift through the layers and layers of crap to find the diamonds hidden underneath. Period.

If you categorize music because of the way it's made, then you haven't understood what music is all about imho. It's not the level of difficulty that defines good music, but the skill and feel and talent and so many other factors of the artist making it. So talking down on techno producers is just as wrong as saying that Jimi Hendrix is overrated since he couldn't play a decent jazz tune on the piano Every generation makes the music with the tools available at the time, and who knows, if mozart would've had a sampler he'd probably have created some pretty amazing tunes as well.

And about your idea to vary more but that wouldn't be techno: another thing you didn't get imho... the number one rule about techno is that there ARE no rules... that's just what makes it so amazing. It doesn't need to be limited to using this instrument or that scheme or this or that. You just do what you want and you make whatever you think you should make.

People overthink everything too much

[BigPoe]

Maybe we're all just like monkies using typewriters, and one day one of us will create something as amazing as a Shakespeare novel by chance.

On a separate note, I was thinking that perhaps a lot of minimal techno is so forgetable because it lacks melody. As humans, I reckon we experience an emotional reaction to melody that helps us remember a song. If you think back to the tunes that you really love, that remind you of a certain place, a certain time and certain people, I'm guessing they'll have a strong melodic element.

[pheek]

but if Pheek can relate his electronic work to Miles Davis one , let him talk about it ...

i ('m trying to) produce "techno" myself , i see my music as a tool for djs nothing else , and for that purpose it has a rigid design.

I think techno producers often over rate their work , seeing themselves as genius , pioneers or whatever , i just think we may reconsider the importance , the range of our work ... we are here only because of technology , computer ease and automation.

Sorry mate, i'm pretty much done spending time on debating of my views on music on this forum; it always ends up no where and in endless discussions where i need to re-explain myself 45 times because someone will try to pin me down. But reading you above explains why you and i dont see things the same way.

On a more contructive side, I checked your myspace and saw you're from Paris. Perhaps you can go check Cabanne play and go have a chat with him. He studied jazz and was one of the first person to explain me the similarities. He'll share his thoughts if you're interested, perhaps he can provide some insights on a side you're currently not seeing
cheers, all the best!

[camus]

On a more contructive side, I checked your myspace and saw you're from Paris. Perhaps you can go check Cabanne play and go have a chat with him. He studied jazz and was one of the first person to explain me the similarities. He'll share his thoughts if you're interested, perhaps he can provide some insights on a side you're currently not seeing
cheers, all the best!

yeah thanks, well , i'm open to discussion of course ... you know , i'm jazz trained too , as a guitarist.I was into the nujazz/broken beat scene , so i know a lot about the use of computers in jazz , breakbeat , etc ...

I dont know cabanne , he is from minibar ?

If you come to france ,i'll come to see you play, and between 2 drinks of wine , we'll have a funny discussion.

it'll take you time to learn how to get proper sounding techno out of a range of hard- or software.

Yeah , maybe , but it has nothing to do with music, it is production. It is a fact that techno artists are called producers and not musicians ... It is like learning to create a screensaver in Photoshop , it doesn't make you a painter.

It's easier to ridicule something you don't understand.

So you understand it better than i do , obvioulsy ? Sorry , i need to listen music another 20 years to really understand what music is or what ? tell me.

. the number one rule about techno is that there ARE no rules..

Of course there are rules , techno is loop based , jazz is not.Ironically you stated one(rule)

there's 99% crap in music, and 1% of great gems.

crap or good music dont define genres

My point is not techno is inferior to jazz , it doesnt make sense , my point is before you relate techno to jazz , there is a long way to go. Do you listen jazz music ? so you know what i'm talking about. It is about communication between musicians , about skills , about improvisation , chord progression , etc ... do you find this in techno ? this not the same approch , in my opinion...

Now yeah , i talked about a few big headed artists that think they invented the whole thing ... but i did not say techno is bad or whatever , i like techno as well as jazz , each genre for different reasons , and as i do both componments are totally differents in my opinion. and i just dont think they are the same kind , though the goal is to make music.

Or everything is equal and can be substituted because it is equivalent ? that is a stupid statement. Punk rock is techno ? Jazz is trance (hmm it may be true ... ) , Everything is everything and i'm narrow minded because i think there are rules to define an aesthetic ? you tell me

Now , i'd like to make my point on what Sebo K , said , in a way , what kills IDM or whatever you call it , is the ease of reproduction.

Of course there is creative people out there , but creativity is no more a "IDM" value. It used to be , because the tools were rare , but now everybody can access the means of production in a breeze , to make good music or crap. My point is jazz has nothing to do with the issue , period.

Nevertheless, there is good music out there , each day i discover a new track that is great , club friendly or not , that makes me say , that we havent seen the end of it yet.

[sherman]

Personally, I think the 'everybody uses X, so it all sounds alike' is a major copout. If people aren't being creative (which I don't think, but anyway...), things will never sound unique. Sh!t, 90% of tracks I hear have a 4 / 4 kick (compressed up to here, but I digress...), how about trying something a little different? (Can I get an Amen? No, wait! )

On the flipside, anyone can grab a < $100 field recorder and _any_ sequencer and make something unique. Its nothing new or undoable, plenty of people have. You may not get in the top 10 of my beatport niche, but if that's your only goal, I think you may have bigger problems at hand... When every aspect of musical expression has been explored, come complain and I'll listen.

Don't blame your tools if you churn something out that sounds just like everything else. I've heard plenty of people do more with less.

/rant