learning from acoustic musicians

[mrgreynoise]

funny thing about the "yay mistakes!" attitude

punk rock is about sh!t performance standards, yay mistakes

look at classical performance standards, be damned if dude playing his concerto is looking for imperfections in his performance. nor is the audience particularly taken in by the "warmness" of flaws. nope. it's about perfection. and that's *good*! the pursuit of excellence! yay quality!

it's appes and oranges, different mediums.. electronic music is like tape music, there's a parallel with movies vs theater. it's a painting, sculpture, it's fixed, tweaked and set in stone.

and if you're playing with drum machines and stuff "live", good for you, you're doing a mixed media piece

creating mistakes to create tension? that's a pretty dumb idea if you ask me. how about creating & resolving a dissonance in the harmonic or rhythmic system you've set up? or is that what you call a mistake?

[Atheory]

funny thing about the "yay mistakes!" attitude

punk rock is about sht performance standards, yay mistakes

look at classical performance standards, be damned if dude playing his concerto is looking for imperfections in his performance. nor is the audience particularly taken in by the "warmness" of flaws. nope. it's about perfection. and that's *good*! the pursuit of excellence! yay quality!

it's appes and oranges, different mediums.. electronic music is like tape music, there's a parallel with movies vs theater. it's a painting, sculpture, it's fixed, tweaked and set in stone.

and if you're playing with drum machines and stuff "live", good for you, you're doing a mixed media piece

creating mistakes to create tension? that's a pretty dumb idea if you ask me. how about creating & resolving a dissonance in the harmonic or rhythmic system you've set up? or is that what you call a mistake?

^^^^

i dont think that people mean that you should intentionally make mistakes. maybe mistake is the wrong word. but it like with rhythm, a perfectly on time beat is all well and good, but actual groove and swing and stuff of funk and jazz records aren't perfect in those terms, but they do make you want to move.

i guess theory can only go so far to explain a lot of things, and getting too bogged down in the semantics and not being able to get a hold of concepts out side of that is pretty tragic really for an adult who spends a lot of time thinking about music.

we all sit here and talk about music, technique, the morality of sampling, originality, the art of dance music, theory all these things, but it doesn't really matter when your on a dance floor with your friends and fucked up and someone plays a record that means something.

[New Guy]

funny thing about the "yay mistakes!" attitude

punk rock is about sht performance standards, yay mistakes

look at classical performance standards, be damned if dude playing his concerto is looking for imperfections in his performance. nor is the audience particularly taken in by the "warmness" of flaws. nope. it's about perfection. and that's *good*! the pursuit of excellence! yay quality!

it's appes and oranges, different mediums.. electronic music is like tape music, there's a parallel with movies vs theater. it's a painting, sculpture, it's fixed, tweaked and set in stone.

and if you're playing with drum machines and stuff "live", good for you, you're doing a mixed media piece

creating mistakes to create tension? that's a pretty dumb idea if you ask me. how about creating & resolving a dissonance in the harmonic or rhythmic system you've set up? or is that what you call a mistake?

Well i never really mentioned performance standards in my post, so im not gonna go there.

With my post i wanted to give the premises from which i came to the conclusion that regression was the wrong word.

As you say no one in an orchestra wants to make mistakes. But they know that they can make them very easily, so they have this tension inside them which also does come out in the music.
Now let's say in reasons redrum you put the kick on their places and you know that they are not gonna drift in time back and forth. They are locked. In this scenario you won't have tension. The mind will not register differences in time or tonality thus after a while it won't concentrate on it.

About your comment that it's different mediums. I agree completely.
These are different mediums, but there seems to be the same purpose to these mediums. They serve as tools for expressing ones feelings/thoughts...

Now about mistakes (and no i didnt tension achieved through chord progression)
For example mistakes are remembered more than completely perfect things.
There was a thread in here about djing with vinyl. Someone mentioned there that you have one track playing then you bring in another one which is not in sync with the track playing. It is totally off and the moment you fix it you get this experience of a lift off/elevation.
Mistake grabbed the attention and once it got resolved the music took the attention into further a state of ecstasy.

It's like with completing/achieving things(work,school,satisfying basic mammalian needs), it makes you feel better, stronger, gives a feeling of joy.

[gmschroeder]

we have over come the problems of Amplification and Tuning

why perpetuate such poor standards?

why regress ?


we dont live in caves anymore for a reason

Subtlety in dynamics comes to mind.
I personally like more than 127 nondiscrete values for an uncountable number of parameters in my music, along with instrument quirks inspiring elements of composition, thankyouverymuch.

[MagpieIndustries]

I think the real difference is that acoustic musicians know something about music, whereas electronic musicians know about technology. Both are complex and deep areas, sure, but one is a language that's been designed over several million years to express feeling, and one's sitting in your bedroom surrounded by leds and knobs (or worse, clicking on sh!t with the mouse).

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

You guys are being pretty charitable... I am not going to even pretend I have any respect for his opinions.

First off... Android, you are obviously a person of substandard intelligence and narrow experience.

Second... if you bothered to read the little caption on the side of that video that you linked to as an example of the shortcomings of classical musician and instruments you would know that the video in question was a satirical joke. That is not actually what the musicians sounded like. The fact you missed this obvious piece of information is probably indicative of your real problem. You have no insight into the things that you see and hear. I don't know, maybe you have done too many drugs or maybe you are just an ignorant ass. Whatever your problem is I hope you move past it someday.

"classical musicians are irrelevant in the modern world..."

I feel sorry for you. You were obviously raised around and by ignorant people.

sometimes i get feeling that all the wealth in music is actually in those little mistakes. there is a real message in it, personally.

Arhitek, you are bang on with this idea. Music that is robotic played is very dull for the mind. Music that is played by a group of musicians, even if it is just the same loop over and over again contains so much more information for the mind to process then music generated by a machine. You cant play a track for more then a few minutes before it becomes dull and flat while on the other hand you can listen to hand percussionists playing the same rhythm for a long time without getting tired of it because its always changing. Every beat is slightly syncopated, the accents and tones are always changing slightly and beats off the mark by milliseconds. Those imperceptibly small changes in timing and power translate to richer and deeper sound waves.

Take a musician like Yo Yo Ma . He is easily one of the greatest classical musicians alive today. He does not keep timing when he plays his pieces. Plays the music by the feel of it and makes no effort to stick to a externally referenced metronome to keep the flow of the music. (I dont know if I explained that well, you would have to watch the interview) Musicians can bring things to the music that the composer never can.

You know what? fck you man, the majority of "electronic musicians" are complete fucking hacks who spew out monotonous sh!t that should never be heard by world. These questions of performance standards are irrelevant. If a musician is not a good musician then you are not hearing what you are supposed to. Stop listening to bad musicians.

I am just going to stop here because I feel that I am about to expose a nasty side of myself that I try hard to keep in check...

I would rather listen to a well meaning performance by a highschool marching band or a slightly off key Ave Maria then to some druggy with a synth and a drum machine muttering into a microphone about their state of intoxication or how much he needs to get laid.

[victorgonzales]

I agree with the feeling of artists expressing through and acoutis instrument. A guitar for example is very limited as an indstrument but god damn if people dont make buitifull music with them.

A bunch of my favorite EDM songs seem to follow that type of thinking. I really enjoy the songs that just have one main synth but it moves and changes and takes on different roles in the song. It kinda makes it feel like the artist was playing the synth as a guitarist would jammout some great melody on his guitar ya know?

Often these tracks spark my interest far more than tracks with five or six different synths in them all jammed together.

[livecollective]

You guys are being pretty charitable... I am not going to even pretend I have any respect for his opinions.

First off... Android, you are obviously a person of substandard intelligence and narrow experience.

Second... if you bothered to read the little caption on the side of that video that you linked to as an example of the shortcomings of classical musician and instruments you would know that the video in question was a satirical joke. That is not actually what the musicians sounded like. The fact you missed this obvious piece of information is probably indicative of your real problem. You have no insight into the things that you see and hear. I don't know, maybe you have done too many drugs or maybe you are just an ignorant as.s. Whatever your problem is I hope you move past it someday.

+100

"classical musicians are irrelevant in the modern world..."

I feel sorry for you. You were obviously raised around and by ignorant people.

My sentiments exactly.


Time for ol'android to hang up the glasses and take his seat upon the thrown of fools.


I still want to hear his music. I mean come on, someone with no respect for the past must make some pretty forward thinking tunes.