I guess for me, the reason why it is possible to say that 'techno has no masterpieces' is becuase of the openess of the format (at least in recording tunes... live is a different matter).
As a techno tune is a piece of a puzzle and so even though the piece that is forms a small part of (i.e. a nights worth of music) could be a masterpiece, the individual tune is not (just so there's no misinterpretation I mean you can have infinitely magical tunes.. but 'masterpiece' to me has an epic quality to it, like a whole symphony or whatever, not just an amazing section).
Well, that's my interpretation of what someone could mean when they say there are no masterpieces in techno.
As far as not pushing any boundaries goes... I dunno how you anyone could think that. sure, there's plenty of staleness on the surface, but fck, some of the most boundary pushing people of our time are working within the techno format.
i'm fed up... i beg you...
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oblioblioblio
- mnml maxi
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what people think a masterpiece is needs to be defined a bit better really.
i dont see why techno cant have a masterpiece, because an artist who makes a chest of drawers can have his masterpiece, which could also be considered function over form. and many other things like architecture etc fall into that idea. call me old fashioned but i always thought a masterpiece was a work that was say the peak of a certain art form.
@torque, yeah i like alot of those tracks, and they are representative of the peak works in a certain style/era of techno, but i dont really agree with your analysis of the state of techno. i think it takes no guts at all to release a masterpiece. i think the quality/crowd is the same quality/crowd as back in the 80-90s (maybe in someways you could say its better) its just that the way people approach and buy music is different from then. peoples relationship to the music is different.
like gigs back then (i hear) were tied up to a social situation, a sort of communal exploration of what could be possible, where loads of people were doing something that was new, and didnt have a set of rules/boundries. where as now, the scene has move to more organised thing with clubs etc. its not as much about community in the older sense.
then people realised that it wasnt that difficult to dj, and they wanted to be djs. then software and making music is so, so easy today, that everyone wants to be a producer. and because everyone wants to produce, but their records arent necessarily good enough, now everyone has a label. so its more that the market is flooded with maybe 200+ awful to mediocre records daily/weekly. but what can u do about it? people will always buy sh!t records, they always have, always will.
but theres still loads of amazing stuff coming out.
i dont see why techno cant have a masterpiece, because an artist who makes a chest of drawers can have his masterpiece, which could also be considered function over form. and many other things like architecture etc fall into that idea. call me old fashioned but i always thought a masterpiece was a work that was say the peak of a certain art form.
@torque, yeah i like alot of those tracks, and they are representative of the peak works in a certain style/era of techno, but i dont really agree with your analysis of the state of techno. i think it takes no guts at all to release a masterpiece. i think the quality/crowd is the same quality/crowd as back in the 80-90s (maybe in someways you could say its better) its just that the way people approach and buy music is different from then. peoples relationship to the music is different.
like gigs back then (i hear) were tied up to a social situation, a sort of communal exploration of what could be possible, where loads of people were doing something that was new, and didnt have a set of rules/boundries. where as now, the scene has move to more organised thing with clubs etc. its not as much about community in the older sense.
then people realised that it wasnt that difficult to dj, and they wanted to be djs. then software and making music is so, so easy today, that everyone wants to be a producer. and because everyone wants to produce, but their records arent necessarily good enough, now everyone has a label. so its more that the market is flooded with maybe 200+ awful to mediocre records daily/weekly. but what can u do about it? people will always buy sh!t records, they always have, always will.
but theres still loads of amazing stuff coming out.
A great track can stand on it's own 100% without a mix. Why is everybody making tracks that can't that are basically dj tools when almost nobody in techno really knows how to dj. Most can match beats and level correctly but very few have enough skill or knowledge to understand song structure and when to bring a record in or out. One of the problems right now might be that the ability to use all these dj tools to their full potential is beyond most dj's capabilities.oblioblioblio wrote:I guess for me, the reason why it is possible to say that 'techno has no masterpieces' is becuase of the openess of the format (at least in recording tunes... live is a different matter).
As a techno tune is a piece of a puzzle and so even though the piece that is forms a small part of (i.e. a nights worth of music) could be a masterpiece, the individual tune is not (just so there's no misinterpretation I mean you can have infinitely magical tunes.. but 'masterpiece' to me has an epic quality to it, like a whole symphony or whatever, not just an amazing section).
Well, that's my interpretation of what someone could mean when they say there are no masterpieces in techno.
As far as not pushing any boundaries goes... I dunno how you anyone could think that. sure, there's plenty of staleness on the surface, but fck, some of the most boundary pushing people of our time are working within the techno format.
Couple masterpieces here imo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial ... e_(series)
(you have to copy/paste the link above. It won't let me add the url tag because of the 'series' in parenthesis, when I remove the parenthesis the link is broken, but even without the tag it's trying to make the url a link without the series included! grrrr)
Masterful art does not have to be complex by definition, just wanted to put that out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial ... e_(series)
(you have to copy/paste the link above. It won't let me add the url tag because of the 'series' in parenthesis, when I remove the parenthesis the link is broken, but even without the tag it's trying to make the url a link without the series included! grrrr)
Masterful art does not have to be complex by definition, just wanted to put that out there.
I like what someone else said above about a "piece of the puzzle" as well. I really think techno is one of the first artforms where the dj is an essential piece of the puzzle; weaving, manipulating, and redefining a variety of sounds, songs, textures, and noises to come up with an entirely new and comprehensive work which is more then the sum of its parts.
Of course dj's have long been used in disco, hiphop, and other mediums, but rarely has it been used to so intimately fuse a number of tracks into each other as in techno.
Of course dj's have long been used in disco, hiphop, and other mediums, but rarely has it been used to so intimately fuse a number of tracks into each other as in techno.
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oblioblioblio
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I suppose it's a personal thing. To me, the best techno is when the boundaries between tracks dissolve. The music takes on a living form, with every musical phrase somehow referencing every other. And even though an indivdual track sounds good on it's own, it is no where near as powerful as when it is lost as a part of something bigger.Torque wrote: A great track can stand on it's own 100% without a mix. Why is everybody making tracks that can't that are basically dj tools when almost nobody in techno really knows how to dj. Most can match beats and level correctly but very few have enough skill or knowledge to understand song structure and when to bring a record in or out. One of the problems right now might be that the ability to use all these dj tools to their full potential is beyond most dj's capabilities.
Man that took me 20 minutes to go through.
However it was in many cases enlightening and a waste of time ( of which could be used to make "Techno Masterpieces")
Not like anybody asked, but here is my view.
NEVER PIGEON HOLE YOURSELF.
We all listen to different music I would hope other than just Techno and if you aren't..maybe you should. We listeners, Djs and production artists have the ability to expose new sounds to new people and vets. That is your job.
If you find yourself creating the same thing as whats popular or what is comparable to someone else. Stop doing what you are doing. Seriously you're being a tool, to yourself, others and spitting in the face of creation.
To be honest I have no idea what JP is commenting about, then again I'm not a label head or maybe I don't listen to as much Techno, Mnml or whatever is the buzz nowadays. So maybe I shouldn't be commenting.
But I am and I can't stop..lol
Lets face it..electronic music is at this point in time, is pretty easy to create. Given the amount of presets that can be hidden, sounds given and loops driven. (thats me being real yo)
Its your duty as a explorer to expand ideas. More so than ever.
If you believe in the music, you will stretch the boundaries and you won't hide behind what is the standard. And if you are..again..go home listen to some Mozart, Phillip Glass and hell anything.
I'll be honest I'm not a fan of M_nus, but I respect the crew to a degree for breeding a base. Its your turn now.
Start evolving stop regurgitating.
and blah blah blee bluuu
However it was in many cases enlightening and a waste of time ( of which could be used to make "Techno Masterpieces")
Not like anybody asked, but here is my view.
NEVER PIGEON HOLE YOURSELF.
We all listen to different music I would hope other than just Techno and if you aren't..maybe you should. We listeners, Djs and production artists have the ability to expose new sounds to new people and vets. That is your job.
If you find yourself creating the same thing as whats popular or what is comparable to someone else. Stop doing what you are doing. Seriously you're being a tool, to yourself, others and spitting in the face of creation.
To be honest I have no idea what JP is commenting about, then again I'm not a label head or maybe I don't listen to as much Techno, Mnml or whatever is the buzz nowadays. So maybe I shouldn't be commenting.
But I am and I can't stop..lol
Lets face it..electronic music is at this point in time, is pretty easy to create. Given the amount of presets that can be hidden, sounds given and loops driven. (thats me being real yo)
Its your duty as a explorer to expand ideas. More so than ever.
If you believe in the music, you will stretch the boundaries and you won't hide behind what is the standard. And if you are..again..go home listen to some Mozart, Phillip Glass and hell anything.
I'll be honest I'm not a fan of M_nus, but I respect the crew to a degree for breeding a base. Its your turn now.
Start evolving stop regurgitating.
and blah blah blee bluuu
-Layborn-
The last demo I got sent has single handedly kickstarted our label, I was thinking about knocking it on the head for a while and didn't even have much time for my own production.
I've had a lot of really bad demos in the past, it just comes with the turf I suppose.
I totally respect where Pheek is coming from - I'll bet it does get frustrating from time to time, but I don't think it's wise to try and lay down any laws to people, it just puts people off, and it's a difficult enough game to get into in the 1st place, new talent should be encouraged without too many constraints.
I think encouragement is better than scorn and at the end of the day - you don't have to write back to everyone that sends a demo, a lack of reply should really say it all, and lets remember - every job has a sh@tty element to it, if you are running a label , particularly a sucessful one - you should be prepared to have to do this sort of thing from time to time.
In fact - I don't mind it a bit - If anyone wants to hire me as an A+R assistant to vet demos - I'd happily do it , for a fee of course
I've had a lot of really bad demos in the past, it just comes with the turf I suppose.
I totally respect where Pheek is coming from - I'll bet it does get frustrating from time to time, but I don't think it's wise to try and lay down any laws to people, it just puts people off, and it's a difficult enough game to get into in the 1st place, new talent should be encouraged without too many constraints.
I think encouragement is better than scorn and at the end of the day - you don't have to write back to everyone that sends a demo, a lack of reply should really say it all, and lets remember - every job has a sh@tty element to it, if you are running a label , particularly a sucessful one - you should be prepared to have to do this sort of thing from time to time.
In fact - I don't mind it a bit - If anyone wants to hire me as an A+R assistant to vet demos - I'd happily do it , for a fee of course