making sure you're in tune...

[oblioblioblio]

about tuning generally. everyone has a different system that works for them. some people like to know the theory behind it, and others do not, but both these approaches are equally valid.

I had a horrible experience being forcefed theory when I was younger, and nowadays I go out of my way to ignore theory and work as much as possible in the moment.

obviously the theory is still there, and is always important, but I think you're pretty well equipped to understand it even if you can't put words to it.

(this is to the orginal poster about my personal approach to staying "in tune", as I think there isn't too much of a rigid 'science' to tuning, going with what you like the sound of is a good theory too).

[AK]

I had a horrible experience being forcefed theory when I was younger, and nowadays I go out of my way to ignore theory and work as much as possible in the moment.

obviously the theory is still there, and is always important, but I think you're pretty well equipped to understand it even if you can't put words to it.

I know exactly what you mean mate, I have a fair few musical people in my family ( Nan was a Pianist, cousin teaches music, sister plays Violin, other cousin in a band ) So I was sort of 'taught' stuff when we had a Piano in the house, and it was all the stuff you really don't want to be learning for modern music in my opinion.

I got into a band at uni and discovered dissonance for the first time, albeit in a slightly anti-social way courtesy of angst-ridden mates who were also into other anti-social, non-conformist music. I knew how to read music then from the stuff I did as a kid & at school but even though most of that knowledge is useless to me now, I still value the fact that I know it ( or at least some of it )

But going back to what you were sort of eluding to, I think it can work both ways, I'd have liked nothing more than to learn music theory based on the Jazz approach rather than Classical, for me, it is totally the modern way for any sort of theoretical approach to learning music and I suppose to some extent, you have to 'unlearn' some things to be able to adapt to more 'underground' and non-commercial harmonic structures and voicings. At least that's what I found anyway.

It's not until you are exposed to music outside of your 'comfort-zone' that you can appreciate just how much you didn't actually know about music and that ( in my case ) what I did know, felt conservative and too traditional by comparison.

I think once you know some theory behind the music you make, it tends to go a little subconscious anyways, like you don't think of the words when you speak a sentence. It's a back of the mind thing. I don't think it's necessary to have any theoretical knowledge, unless you have a vested interest, going by what sounds good is something I adhere to strongly.

[oblioblioblio]

I know exactly what you mean mate, I have a fair few musical people in my family ( Nan was a Pianist, cousin teaches music, sister plays Violin, other cousin in a band ) So I was sort of 'taught' stuff when we had a Piano in the house, and it was all the stuff you really don't want to be learning for modern music in my opinion.

I got into a band at uni and discovered dissonance for the first time, albeit in a slightly anti-social way courtesy of angst-ridden mates who were also into other anti-social, non-conformist music. I knew how to read music then from the stuff I did as a kid & at school but even though most of that knowledge is useless to me now, I still value the fact that I know it ( or at least some of it )

But going back to what you were sort of eluding to, I think it can work both ways, I'd have liked nothing more than to learn music theory based on the Jazz approach rather than Classical, for me, it is totally the modern way for any sort of theoretical approach to learning music and I suppose to some extent, you have to 'unlearn' some things to be able to adapt to more 'underground' and non-commercial harmonic structures and voicings. At least that's what I found anyway.

It's not until you are exposed to music outside of your 'comfort-zone' that you can appreciate just how much you didn't actually know about music and that ( in my case ) what I did know, felt conservative and too traditional by comparison.

I think once you know some theory behind the music you make, it tends to go a little subconscious anyways, like you don't think of the words when you speak a sentence. It's a back of the mind thing. I don't think it's necessary to have any theoretical knowledge, unless you have a vested interest, going by what sounds good is something I adhere to strongly.

heheh, with me I could never be arsed to learn scales. I hated doing it, and my music teacher was always up in my arse about it. I was never encouraged to play music cos I enjoyed it, but so I could get the next 'grade' (these fuckin certificates to show how good you are).

I never really made the connection with music that I listened to versus stuff that I was learning. It was a while back, but thinking about it when I started getting into listening to music, it was right about the time that I was giving up on learning it (ironically).

I actually played the instrument I was learning for the first time in 7 years at the weekend with some friends. For me the important things that I learned were still there. Which definitely didn't include which notes were which. I guess it was more like the subconscious thing you mentioned.

but yeah, it's a pretty complex topic and definitely I wouldn't say to never learn theory. cos everyone finds different value in different things. My mate improvises really well using western theory as a roadmap, for example. And some people focus more on textures or rhythm.

eeish. definitely a very personal thing though. I just wanted to point out that there is room to breathe in tuning. that one persons "in tune" is another persons "out of tune"

[nospin]

I actually played the instrument I was learning for the first time in 7 years at the weekend with some friends. For me the important things that I learned were still there. Which definitely didn't include which notes were which. I guess it was more like the subconscious thing you mentioned.

studying theory at school never really helped me when creating music of my own. it did help however, when it came time to play with others. it really is just a way to communicate what is being played basically...

[oblioblioblio]

yeah very true man.

but also the sonic waves themselves are communicating what is being played. guess it depends on who you're playing with and how. At the weekend it worked fine cos the other guys were working within a moderately rigid framework and I was just playing along. But if everyone ws just messing around in the moment it could have been very messy (talking from experience here )

[Android]

speaking of tuning 808's

I was tuning the kick drum on my latest track.

the higher octave of the 808 it was punching me right in the face.

the lower octave was shaking the piss out of the room behind me.

both sounded great

I'm monitoring with 2x8" and 3x15"

but which would sound better on most club systems ??

what has been your experience with Higher or Lower Kicks on Big Rigs?

[Torque]

All you guys that say learning music theory doesn't help you with this music are either out your mind or you make music that isn't "musical". Knowing music theory gives you a huge advantage over the guys that never learned anything about it. To skip this step in the your musical learning process i think is a huge mistake. Music is both a skill and an art, you need to know the skill in order to get the art out of your head quickly before the inspiration is gone. Otherwise you end up becoming a knob twiddler and you spend all your time just happening upon sh!t instead of really creating it. Learing to play an instrument and learning music theory ensures that it's YOU making the music and not the MACHINE.

As for being in tune. I try to make everything in tune. I tune every drum, every cymbal, every chord, every bassline, everything that is tunable. I like my whole track to ring. Also making sure stuff is all in tune helps to push things like drums out front due to harmonic resonance. Sometimes having a part that's out of tune hurts the fullness because the note it is hitting can have a phase canceling effect on another part. It's weird how sh!t like this works. Once i had a tom in a track that was slightly out of tune and it was phase canceling my bass line and cause the volume of the bassline to get louder and quieter just like i put a phaser on it. It took me forever to find out what was doing that.

[oblioblioblio]

All you guys that say learning music theory doesn't help you with this music are either out your mind or you make music that isn't "musical". Knowing music theory gives you a huge advantage over the guys that never learned anything about it. To skip this step in the your musical learning process i think is a huge mistake. Music is both a skill and an art, you need to know the skill in order to get the art out of your head quickly before the inspiration is gone. Otherwise you end up becoming a knob twiddler and you spend all your time just happening upon sht instead of really creating it. Learing to play an instrument and learning music theory ensures that it's YOU making the music and not the MACHINE.

'Out of my mind' I can't disagree with, but to say 'unmusical' is kinda harsh.

I'm not suggesting that you throw out all logic and learning, but instead to develop a personal approach where you don't take everything for granted. Sure, Western theory can give you some nice recipes, but if I wanna cook food for myself at some point I'm gonna have to put the book downand start tasting things for myself to see what works.

I've tried lots of different approaches to understanding the skill of organising pitch, but I've found the best way to learn (for me at least) is to listen and find out what I like and what I don't. Besides, now that we have easy access to whole new worlds of musical science(microtunings) a lot of what you can learn in western theory isn't too helpful anyway.