music and storytelling

[steevio]

paddy you've got some weird sht on your hard drive bruv

[AVX23]

Pretty cosmic ain't he

[Crimson Chamber Music]

well I think that most music tells a story, even techno, although its very name suggests a proximity to generic music which I would see as lacking any storytelling - or influence from a higher being / energy form channeling through the artist.

so storytelling to me is just one way of touching someone´s soul with music - and it is not neccessarily a good thing of itself.
surely one can attest more reflection on part of the artist to someone who sits down and writes some lyrics, that are not completely random or generic (chart pop songs come to mind)
BUT if that is better than just getting a nice groove down, stands on another page, I would not say so, exactly because a groove is all about feeling, there is some primordial instinct that either makes a track float your boat or not, whereas storytelling by means of language or intricate structuring etc. often involve a lot more consciousness on part of the listener which by definiton only has a limited access to our emotions,..

To me music is the language of emotions, and I often have difficulties getting in touch with them (says GF ;-) ) but when I feel I have to tell her something I just sit down at the piano and play her some improvisation, and she will understand.

Basically when you sit down and make music and achieve a flow experience where everything just comes together, then you are in the zone then you are yourself, one with "the universe / whatever" and thus all these ephemeric factors that constitute your experience will enter the track you are making - this is the emerging of a meta-narrative.

I think the process described above can be avoided by uninspired music 8-)

good night everyone

[oblioblioblio]

thanks for your contributions guys.

I would say that storytelling is channeling information from one form to another. I don't mean storytelling purely in the most literal sense.

I was very curious to compare the approach of techno musicians to other forms though in this respect.

But perhaps techno is a unique form of storytelling, and comparisons to other forms are not particularly valid.

There isn't an obvious narrative or narrator to look for.

That unicorn pissing rainbows sums it up I guess.

[dubgil]

So, this topic has my attention at the moment, and I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and approaches towards it.

Music, in all forms I think, tells a story in some way or other. Sometimes it is very obvious, for example a mass manufactured pop song telling a throwaway story of skin deep affection, or say, Bob Dylan rapping about his dreams.

But more often it is less so.. techno is a good example here I think. It definitely doesn't feature any obvious narrative, or narrator. maybe it is telling the story of dance. But what story is that, and who is telling it?

I certainly don't have a clue, but definitely this topic of storytelling is interesting to me, if completely vast and confusing...

So, considering I'm a million miles out of my depth here I'd love to hear some of your thoughts. Do you actively try and tell a story when you produce? Or do you sit down and let the story tell itself? Do you think this topic is something best left unthought about?

thanks, mark.

I dunno if this is exactly what you're after, but I have this Claude Von Stroke mix and about 30mins into there is this track of a dood telling the story of an experience he had eating mushrooms. On the surface that my sound imature or not too interesting. I wouldn't be too interested in that description of a track either.

HOWEVER - the music is composed in a way that it follows the story exactly to a T. As he describes the progress of his "trip" so goes the music and the effects while never loosing the groove. Maybe someone here knows the track - the vocal sounds like the voice of an hip hop artist who is NOT rapping, but just recalling his experience. The music as a "background" to the storytelling is perfectly in sync. My mind was blown the first time I heard this - a great concept.

anyone know the track????

[AK]

So please don't think I'm that single minded and arrogant as to think my own opinions are the 'authority' on this matter.

We were asked for our opinions and I gave them, you are free to give your own.
.

It's not so much that I was getting at you for having an opinion, that would be silly. I was simply taken back by the strength of you statment.
Having an opinion is one thing but calling music 'churned out mindless fodder' if it doesn't tell a 'story' seems a rather angry and bold stance to take on such a basic question and I was merely commenting on that.

I'm not having a go btw, I just find it strange and wondered why you have this view of music?

As for myself, I am into a wide range of music, sure I like music that tells a story as much as the next person. If the song is good and I find something to personalize regarding lyrics or it holds sentimental value, I am likely to latch onto it from an emotional point of view but not to the extent of dismissing other musical forms. I sometimes don't want to be 'told' how to feel or have my mindset deliberately altered by a set of lyrics or meloncholic chord progression.

I might want to experience a neutral, rhythmic percussive piece of music that ( for example ) might use a progression of Sus chords and open 5ths in an attempt to remain 'neutral' and not convey any such emotional or story except to keep you focused on rhythm and timbre.

Or I might wish to hear foriegn music which does away with western harmony altogether, or I may even wish to hear atonal music, short intense passages like 40's horror movies or something.....

My point is, there is value in all forms of music, even if you do not wish to listen to them.

[AVX23]

sorry - you are correct - it is a bit strong

I don't really think mindless is bad, In fact I've enjoyed, played, and made some pretty mindless music in my time, it's always had it's time and it's place. And it's not that I don't like the stuff I've described as mindless, It has it's time and place and can be pretty amazing when done right.

In fact - a better way of describing it would be, a lot of stuff without concept or ideal (or portentious delusions of grandeur to some) is kinda like Gir from Invader Zim, It's just cool, knowwhat I mean, it's stuff you whack on to get people up and moving, it's about rythym and having fun and letting go, it's about sex, about getting people together, looking good, feeling good, sharing joy - whatever, the point being that it doesn't require deep analysis or any kind of connection to the artist bar - doobie doobie dooo, got ma funk on, gonna rock out to these strange exciting alien sounds.

Or in some cases - such as the times for example I go and endulge my harder tastes and go see folk like surgeon, it can be about loosing control, abandoning all self discipline, screaming like a howler monkey and gurning like a fool.

And all of this is good (for me anyway) and it can be totally mindless in a good way, personally I find mindless stuff to be a good escape, a good release of energy and tension, and just fun in general. And all of this is subjective to taste in a way. Again - to go back to my sister, she tells me she doesn't want to have to think about music, she just likes to get down with her pals to stuff they can all sing along to, and she listens to some stuff I'd consider to be awful mindless cheesy nonsense (altho some clever person somewhere has obviously seen a market in producing it in the 1st place, perhaps cynically to make money or otherwise).

But when it comes to art, I think there is a skill in representing an ideal, or a story or a concept, and I think it's important to distinguish between the two states.

Anyway - I think I'm starting to talk in circles, I'm sorry If we got our wires crossed

I refer you back to the urinating unicorn (altho personally I see him as spunking his cosmic love unto the universe

Peace

[Torque]

From the very beginning this style of music has been based upon a concept of storytelling or creating fictional places or things and describing them with music. Kraftwerk is a good example of this. If what they are doing isn't part of a conceptual piece then they are just purely insane. No sane person would write love songs to their pocket calculator or home computer unless it was part of some sort of artistic vision. Cybotron and Model 500 were created to paint pictures in your mind of future landscapes and societies and did it quite well. There are others though that some see as conceptual pieces that might not be. I think when Dopplereffekt says "i want to make love to a manikin" he's just saying what's on his mind (trust me). When Chaos/Pervtek (Mark Floyd from UR) talks about standing outside your window while being "Buck naked in black socks" he's probably not joking either. all silliness aside...One of the most complete conceptual pieces in techno by far in my opinion is Drexciya. It's about a race of aliens from a water world that run around exploring other water planets, it's really amazing stuff. Jeff Mills and "Mad" Mike Banks from UR have both done tons of records based upon concepts like X-102 where they started out by asking themselves what the rings of Saturn sound like musically. Jeff in particular has done allot of records about other planets and all kinds of weird sh!t. Mike has put together a ton of projects like these through the years like Interstellar Fugitives for example. In fact just about the entire UR catalog is based upon conceptual pieces like this.

Storytelling is at the heart of the very tradition in techno music and allot of musical innovation from Detroit has come about because the people that make these pieces were looking for new sounds to help them describe these things. I recommend that everybody should try to make music this way if they can, it's pushed the music further in the past and it can do it again.