More Stereo

karl-heinz · Post by **karl-heinz** » Sun May 04, 2008 1:03 pm

ok. i should have been more specific.
actually this was exactly about kick and bass.
i compared some of my synthetic kicks (drumatic, live operator) to kick samples and kicks from commercial productions (the one in the screenshot is from butch - on the line oxia mix).
and i tried it out. a doubler does actually do the trick (to some extent) but i just can't get used to the idea of doubling anything in the low frequency region. just feels dangerous to me apart from the fact that it doesn't really work.
any ideas?

karl-heinz · Post by **karl-heinz** » Sun May 04, 2008 1:14 pm

ah just saw your post there. thanks! filtering the sends might be a good idea for the lower freqs. hmm... well it doesn't work for kicks. just tried that out. sounds really distorted and f'd up.

AK · Post by AK » Sun May 04, 2008 1:32 pm

There's not many people who'd advocate adding stereo width to low frequency sounds, mono is definitely more punchy when it comes to kicks and bass, it's fuller, rounder and keeps the weight of the track focused.

That said, there are *tricks* you can do to add a bit of shimmer to sounds which give them a bit more presence.

A common one is to duplicate the bass and on the new track and a stereo chorus plugin followed by a HP filter, set it to a cut off point where there's no low end and then edge the channel up against the original mono bass. This should add a bit of stereo definition without compromising the solidity of the bass. You may need to add a LP filter to the original if there's a some top / mid conflict.

I'm not sure I'd bother with anything for kicks, at most maybe a very tight room with a HP filter but I'd probably apply that to the whole kit rather than just the kick. ( If at all ) What I was on about earlier is def not for kicks.

Each to their own though I guess.

New Guy · Post by **New Guy** » Sun May 04, 2008 2:24 pm

karl-heinz wrote:ok. i should have been more specific.
actually this was exactly about kick and bass.
i compared some of my synthetic kicks (drumatic, live operator) to kick samples and kicks from commercial productions (the one in the screenshot is from butch - on the line oxia mix).
and i tried it out. a doubler does actually do the trick (to some extent) but i just can't get used to the idea of doubling anything in the low frequency region. just feels dangerous to me apart from the fact that it doesn't really work.
any ideas?

maybe Butch used the S1 imager on the master track with a very subtle setting and thats how the kick seems wider. maybe theres a very small amount of reverb on it, or maybe theres a wide bass layered under the kick.
alot of possibilities really.

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Sun May 04, 2008 3:50 pm

forget it bruv, just keep the kick and bass in the middle.

hydrogen · Post by **hydrogen** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:17 pm

steevio wrote:forget it bruv, just keep the kick and bass in the middle.

That is the secret.

victorgonzales · Post by **victorgonzales** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:52 pm

karl-heinz wrote:ok. i should have been more specific.
actually this was exactly about kick and bass.
i compared some of my synthetic kicks (drumatic, live operator) to kick samples and kicks from commercial productions (the one in the screenshot is from butch - on the line oxia mix).
and i tried it out. a doubler does actually do the trick (to some extent) but i just can't get used to the idea of doubling anything in the low frequency region. just feels dangerous to me apart from the fact that it doesn't really work.
any ideas?

Well for kicks and bass Id recommend spending more time with equing and compression.

If a kick sounds loud in your mix but still gets drowned out by your other instruments equing can make a HUGE difference.

Look at the spectrum of your kick . say the punch of it is between 60-80hz and the snap of it is around 8000 hz. Try filtering out some of the space in between there below there and above there and adding slight peaks in those two frequency ranges. The rms of your kick will drop dramatically and you can turn that fucker up alot more and get it slamming. You can also add a slight bit of compression to tighten it up. A multiband compressor works great for this because you can compress the frequency range in the kick that you want the most power out of.

As for bass the same rules apply. boost up the frequencies you need and filter out the ones that are not necessary. Compression on your bass can give it much more power in the mix as well ass long as it's not taking up to much space in the frequency range. Sometimes I add an exciter or a bit of tube distortion to a bass to mach it sound fuller as well.

And as Stevio said keep your kicks and low frequencies dead center unless your going for an effect. If you are spreading them out they will just blend in with the rest of your insdtruments and in dancefloor music that looses alot of power.

Stomper · Post by **Stomper** » Sun May 04, 2008 11:43 pm

This plugin doest show the real stereo image, it show the stereo by phase cancelation.
If you take a hi hat and put it all the way to the right, you will clearly hear that its only on the right. but the plugin wont show it to you because there is no phase 'problems'. but, if you take the same hi hat and duplicate it, make a phase reverse and delay it by a few ms (play with it till it sound good) than you will see how the plugin start showing you wider stereo image.
it not something i would do on kick, tom, bass, but try doing that on pads, hi hat and other things that are more backround and not the power and drive of the track.

Stomper.