do we need to go back underground?

[Red Kite]

At the moment netlabels work as a stepping stone into the commercial music business scene. Even if it is a kinda ugly comparison, they in fact work like talent scouts. I discovered a lot of cool artists through their netlabel releases, and some now well-known artists started out on netlabels. So there's always commercial thoughts to netlabels as well, but how couldn't there? The artists have to live from something, and netlabel releases only don't fill your stomach. Unless you just take it as a hobby. They're a bit like third-league football clubs with cool young players that the big clubs buy off sooner or later. And once you joined GEMA there's no way back.

(I only consider the underground point of view here, since I surely love netlabels even if they don't do purely experimental stuff, and am releasing that stuff myself)

Still, some elements in the netlabel scene are surely underground:
First, they can explore new sound ideas without any commercial worries about how it might sell (still a lot of netlabels are happy with releasing cool club music that could be out on vinyl as well).
Second, they challenge the established copyright and royalty system. The netlag parties and also the GEMA-free mixes that dj l'embroullie does are a very important element of a healthy underground intention, and it is not a second too early for that (as underground should always be trying to be ahead of its time and not behind)

[Storlon]

so far it doesn't bring much to us, while it does to you (the listener).

I dont really know as i'm not inside it, but i can see it to be some sort of promotional tool if used correctely for people touring a bit.

to name a few i discovered trough net release and played near my place : Dilo, Shadi Megallaa, Barem, butane, Ben Parris, Miss Fitz, pheek...

[plaster]

so far it doesn't bring much to us, while it does to you (the listener).

I dont really know as i'm not inside it, but i can see it to be some sort of promotional tool if used correctely for people touring a bit.

to name a few i discovered trough net release and played near my place : Dilo, Shadi Megallaa, Barem, butane, Ben Parris, Miss Fitz, pheek...

yup, the beauty of it

[mando]

so how do you balance these kind of tensions? can you? or do just either opt for dancing in the woods by yourself or in the crowd with everyone?

i balance this problem of popularity, because i am not going to some events, i know, i dont can dance and have my really fun (because of the big names).

the other problem is, most of the events are in small underground clubs (see harry klein club, only 250 people can stay there) and some hyped labels or artists are too "big" for this small locations.

so i am looking every week for some alternatives for me to visit some events with newcomers, local djs, upstarters, people dont know (because they visit the hyped parties at the same evening) and thats okay for me.
and its also a good point to pay not much for entrance

okay, its a problem, if you like some big names/labels and you know, you dont can enjoy this parties because of their popularity.

but otherwise, i know all this artists/djs from their beginning and i had my fun and enjoyment in the past.

sometimes i am going with some friends to this parties, but i have my fun with my friends and dont see all the stress around me.

i also dont know, if its mainstream, if some underground clubs growing to hyped locations because of the masses they want to visit this clubs on some party nights.

but its not only a problem for minimal or electronic, its a problem of all kind of music and their artists, if they are growing from underground to the public.

just a example:
i remember one of the first concerts in 1995 from placebo. they play outside of our big city in a small tavern in front of 100 peoples. after the concert, they enjoy this evening together with us. now, they are filling big halls and festivals worldwide.

i think you must pick up and support all the good newcomers and upstarters at a time, they are not too popular. i also love to visit some nice small parties, organized from/for local/unknown djs/artists. and thats underground for me

and you also can enjoy all the big labels and names at home, perhaps with your friends, perhaps for yourself at home, or you are a dj and play this stuff

[morris215]

Move to America, noone likes techno here.

Best,
Matthew

hahaha
so true!
I've been throwing events for almost a decade now and I'm stoked to have 150 people come out.

[mando]

Move to America, noone likes techno here.

Best,
Matthew

hahaha
so true!
I've been throwing events for almost a decade now and I'm stoked to have 150 people come out.

perhaps its also a local problem?

because i played sometimes in the states and they love techno
but i think it will be concentrating on some big citys.

and perhaps techno is a "european thing".

jeff mills was talking about this "problem" he says:

"I mean, it takes on the influences of the people it’s made for. Umm, in America, when I do parties in America, I have to assume that the people I’m playing for, they have a lot of influences, just in general. Whether they like it or not, you hear hip hop, and you hear country, and you hear jazz, because this is the country that actually created it. So they have, I think Americans have a wider palate of influence. Their parents, how they grew up, where they get their influences from, has an important role as well, so I know that their parents probably used to go to discotheques, they probably were into jazz, maybe at college, when they were young, or their parents were musicians. On the other side, when I come to Europe, I know that it’s not as adept, and that music for a lot of people started at a particular time."

Question:
So are you saying it’s harder to play in the US than in Europe? Or that you’re more free?

"I don’t think that it’s harder but you should … In the times that I’ve played, you could play a much wider range of music. You could stop and play some Stevie Wonder and there will be a certain amount of people there who know why you’ve played it. Here, I think, it would be the opposite, I think a lot of people would figure he’s done something wrong here, that maybe he’s going to fit it back together or something, bring it in or something, you know, how did that record get in there? (laughs) And I’m not saying that one is better than the other, but here it’s just so embedded in the culture that people will allow you to go forward very slowly."

They want it very pure.

"Yeah, they want it pure, which is great, which I think has saved dance music actually, if it weren’t for Europe, dance music would have died away, because in the American scene it was sort of, they let it …"

here is the full interview:
English Version
German Version

[morris215]

quality of the crowds is great, quantity is the problem.

I do stuff in Philly, a fairly big city.

[::: b a r e m :::]

why is everybody talking about very big or very small?

big party you can't dance properly... true. but 100 people in the club = no money for a good sound system = you miss more than half of the reasons to be there. Then you'll say: "fck! there's room, there's cool people (hopefully), there's oxigen, but i wish the sound was good so i could really enjoy the music"

and then you go back home, you're really bored and you start a new topic about how usually sound systems suck and some people will find their way to blame minus for that too.

if you are discussing about going to min or going to max, i would actually go to the nice 2 in between them.



and btw.......

did Jay haze hack Milc user account on this forum?