Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

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steevio
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by steevio »

dont know about audacity, but not in Soundforge.

i thought dubgil was asking in relation to using software as a 'tape deck' i took that to mean like a reel to reel, but on reading again he mentions 'mixing' in the arrangement view, so he must have meant 'multi-track tape machine'... my mistake...

i record straight to stereo from my mixing desk, because i find digital mulit-tracking just does not sound right. Its not just Ableton that has this problem, ive tried various different software like Cubase and it doesnt seem to make any difference, digital multitracking sounds inferior to straight stereo recording mixed in the analogue domain.
I come from a recording studio background where multitracking is the only way, because you have to seperate the various instruments, vocals, do over-dubs etc etc.. and much of the time is spent mixing and EQing once the raw tracks are laid down.
but for electronic music this isnt always necessary, and in my case totally un-necessary because i get my mixing domain in order before i record, and prefer my recordings to be totally live.

i always get asked 'but what if something's too loud when you record it and it ruins the whole take, wouldnt it be better to have everything multi-tracked ?'
my answer is 'nothing is ever too loud'
you just have to have good monitors, good acoustics, and lots of practice.
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by regler »

steevio wrote: Its not just Ableton that has this problem, ive tried various different software like Cubase and it doesnt seem to make any difference, digital multitracking sounds inferior to straight stereo recording mixed in the analogue domain. .
hey steevio, just trying to understand everthing right you've said. so you don't think that ableton sounds bad or worse than cubase, it more that you think digital multitracking sounds worse in general, right?

@iquar: are you still interested in a solution with ableton?
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Rein
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by Rein »

ableton is perfectly capable of good recordings.

i record the L/R out of my mixer in it and get excellent result. not as good as an analog tape recording but clean and nice sounding. i notice zero difference with other daws / recording tools...
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by steevio »

regler wrote:
hey steevio, just trying to understand everthing right you've said. so you don't think that ableton sounds bad or worse than cubase, it more that you think digital multitracking sounds worse in general, right?
yes i think digital multitracking degrades the sound on all the platforms ive tried, and its difficult to put into words what sounds different about it in comparison to straight stereo recording. i hear a difference, but i can't describe it very well. 'clinical' is a word i could use but it wouldnt really describe it fully.
you can do a test yourself and see if you notice it. set-up a loop on some hardware through an analogue desk, subgroup the sounds and multitrack the 8 subgroups with your meters reading 0 gain, then record the same loop from the stereo output of your mixer with the meters reading 0 gain.
then compare the stereo recording to the multi-tracked recording. (no need to render anything) so you are basically listening to the same thing, one mixed digitally, and one mixed analogue.

they sound very different - to me !
and it's not the kind of difference you could put down to an extra stage on the desk. its something to do with digital mixing.

i'd be interested to know if anyone else can hear it. anyone fancy doing the experiment ?
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Rein
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by Rein »

steevio wrote:
regler wrote:
hey steevio, just trying to understand everthing right you've said. so you don't think that ableton sounds bad or worse than cubase, it more that you think digital multitracking sounds worse in general, right?
yes i think digital multitracking degrades the sound on all the platforms ive tried, and its difficult to put into words what sounds different about it in comparison to straight stereo recording. i hear a difference, but i can't describe it very well. 'clinical' is a word i could use but it wouldnt really describe it fully.
you can do a test yourself and see if you notice it. set-up a loop on some hardware through an analogue desk, subgroup the sounds and multitrack the 8 subgroups with your meters reading 0 gain, then record the same loop from the stereo output of your mixer with the meters reading 0 gain.
then compare the stereo recording to the multi-tracked recording. (no need to render anything) so you are basically listening to the same thing, one mixed digitally, and one mixed analogue.

they sound very different - to me !
and it's not the kind of difference you could put down to an extra stage on the desk. its something to do with digital mixing.

i'd be interested to know if anyone else can hear it. anyone fancy doing the experiment ?
yeah i notice this to, has to do with analog summing...

analog summing tends to even out some peaks a bit in my experience, and sounds smoother.
...
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by steevio »

Rein wrote: yeah i notice this to, has to do with analog summing...

analog summing tends to even out some peaks a bit in my experience, and sounds smoother.
or you could say that its a deficiency in digital summing, but its probably a bit of both, whatever it is, analogue summing sounds better to me, and for that reason i've given up digital multitracking and concentrated on live analogue mixing.

at first it was a bit frustrating not being able to go back and change levels, EQs, effects send levels etc.. but after a few years it just becomes totally natural and easy.
its like not being able to save patches in a fully analogue environment, you get used to it, to the point where you can get a sound in seconds because you know from experience how to get that sound easily. it probably pushes to understand more deeply about how the sounds are created.
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by oblioblioblio »

digital is hypothetical manipulation by an advanced brain.

analogue is sloppy handiwork of weirdo electrons... where shall we go? let's go this way!
steevio
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Re: Ableton: Export Audio sounds muffled HELP!!!

Post by steevio »

its gone a bit OT, but here's an interesting interview with Shawn Rudiman, he's another 'avoid multi tracking' guy, for the other good reason that you dont have time to get sick of tunes, and mess around around with them forever trying get them right,


http://www.djbroadcast.net/features/fea ... diman.html
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