drum programming and swing

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houseisafeeling
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drum programming and swing

Post by houseisafeeling » Fri May 27, 2016 5:04 pm

hi guys & girls

just wondered if you could give me any advice. im finding it hard to get some nice swingy drum patterns down in ableton, ive
always been a sucker for tracks with a lot of shuffle but struggle to replicate them with out sampling directly. would love to be able to program my own . do you have any tips?? i dont find that the groove pool swing options in ableton help very much

examples of drum patterns i love / want to be able to replicate in the style of

seb zito - those people
https://soundcloud.com/fuselondon/seb-z ... le-fuse019

fabe - ando
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgG1wBq252g

jth - something
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u63Xyu_efqs

riccardo - galaxy cat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orsqNB5Olm8

seb zito - splinter
https://soundcloud.com/fuselondon/seb-zito-splinter

brett johnson - get ready to hit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ol2-zm9LSg

thanks for any advice, it is much appreciated you lovely people you

180gram
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Re: drum programming and swing

Post by 180gram » Fri May 27, 2016 10:10 pm

I have been using the Arturia Beatstep Pro to program my drum patterns in Ableton (but it can do so for any drum machine via midi or gate) and it has a really
nice swing setting which lets you control the amount, as well as randomization with probability, which can be nice, although it tends to also affect the velocity which
isn't ideal because then some samples are triggered too loudly at certain points.

but yea, my advice for you is to maybe get one of those, or you can also always just do everything manually, note by note. It can be really time consuming, but
the results can be really good if you are dedicated to it.

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John Clees
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Re: drum programming and swing

Post by John Clees » Fri May 27, 2016 10:47 pm

Ableton decided to get rid of the standard Swing feature more or less near version 5 through 8, there is a way to try to do it, but I thought it made no difference at all. Just another reason why I won't buy any more abelton products again. It's offered back in 9.0 with the sales pitch for the $500 MIDI controller which I passed on as well. You can always turn off and slightly adjust the high hats to be slightly off on purpose so it sounds not so perfect, sterile, and stiff.

AK
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Re: drum programming and swing

Post by AK » Tue May 31, 2016 2:32 pm

In Ableton, just quantize to a percentage of 16 triplets / 16t.

IE: Say you just programmed in some drums with the grid resolution at 16ths, select all and quantize options, then choose 16t, then a percentage of that. The higher the percentage, the heavier the swing. I always use this method myself, preferring percentages around 20 to 30.

A few issues can arise here though, you need to remember what was quantized and what wasn't and if you play stuff in by hand, quantize first to 16ths and then the percentage of swing you want.

For a locked in, tight groove throughout, use the same on all tracks but make sure they are first quantized to 16ths or else you'll get a percentage of where they were already at.

The downside of this way is that you are constantly switching from 16ths to 16 triplets and have to keep an eye on things but I guess you could always make your own templates.

There's no hidden secret with swing, just find the percentages you like. I prefer all tracks locked in to the same global swing amount as flams and loose timing do my head in. :)

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hydrogen
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Re: drum programming and swing

Post by hydrogen » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:59 pm

Here some ideas that you might try:

Import these tracks with the swing and observe where the notes lie. rip the grooves off them. You could do it manually or with the software.

Abletons groove capabilities are awesome. Lots of options there to dial in how much groove you want on various parts.

If you want the old swing stuff from earlier Ableton version. load up the Ableton swing grooves. its pretty simple.

Some will tell you that you can't replicate this stuff without the actual hardware. its possible.

Also if you are working on the computer... think about how other groove boxes would work if they were in sync. or lack of sync. One groove box might be 10ms behind another... that is easy to do in ableton by setting the track delay -10ms.

The snare on the classic Linndrum drum machine had a slight delay in the sample. which helped create the groove for the machine.

A common groove concept to apply could be the kick being a little late or highhats a little early. Johns suggestion to program them manually is a great idea.

Other Tools for Grooves:
Beyond midi triggers, possibly side chaining high hats and drums to the kick can create additional motion.
Envelopes/Transients/Attack. The sound triggers but it fades in... can really change a groove here.
------------------------------------------------------
http://soundcloud.com/kirkwoodwest

AK
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Re: drum programming and swing

Post by AK » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:05 pm

Yeah, shifting certain notes after can make a difference with some things but I consider swing/shuffle more of a uniform thing, than manually moving stuff. I always get a bit lost with it personally but for when kick and bass hit the same note, a slight nudge can be all it needs to get both working. I quite like this effect on closed hats and kicks, with the right sounds, it's something I think sounds really cool.

You can also try putting the sequencer or drum machine etc to 24 steps per bar and the grid resolution to 16t. 4to the floor pattern kicks will now be on 1,7,13, 19 and you'll get a really swingy vibe when you come to program other sounds in and around it. Quite a heavy feel this but useful to know :)

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econ2
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Re: drum programming and swing

Post by econ2 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:33 pm

AK wrote:In Ableton, just quantize to a percentage of 16 triplets / 16t.

IE: Say you just programmed in some drums with the grid resolution at 16ths, select all and quantize options, then choose 16t, then a percentage of that. The higher the percentage, the heavier the swing. I always use this method myself, preferring percentages around 20 to 30.

A few issues can arise here though, you need to remember what was quantized and what wasn't and if you play stuff in by hand, quantize first to 16ths and then the percentage of swing you want.

For a locked in, tight groove throughout, use the same on all tracks but make sure they are first quantized to 16ths or else you'll get a percentage of where they were already at.
I'm a little confused now - I thought the higher the quantization setting the closer Ableton puts the midi note to the next line marker. So 100% quantization on a kick drum would just be 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 right? So when you say the higher the percentage the heavier the swing I'm curious what you mean...I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm pretty new, just would like to know more.

Also I make drums without grooves, is that a mistake? I use the groove pool in Ableton sometimes but I can't really tell how to use it effectively.

AK
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Re: drum programming and swing

Post by AK » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:56 am

econ2 wrote:
AK wrote:In Ableton, just quantize to a percentage of 16 triplets / 16t.

IE: Say you just programmed in some drums with the grid resolution at 16ths, select all and quantize options, then choose 16t, then a percentage of that. The higher the percentage, the heavier the swing. I always use this method myself, preferring percentages around 20 to 30.

A few issues can arise here though, you need to remember what was quantized and what wasn't and if you play stuff in by hand, quantize first to 16ths and then the percentage of swing you want.

For a locked in, tight groove throughout, use the same on all tracks but make sure they are first quantized to 16ths or else you'll get a percentage of where they were already at.
I'm a little confused now - I thought the higher the quantization setting the closer Ableton puts the midi note to the next line marker. So 100% quantization on a kick drum would just be 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 right? So when you say the higher the percentage the heavier the swing I'm curious what you mean...I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm pretty new, just would like to know more.

Also I make drums without grooves, is that a mistake? I use the groove pool in Ableton sometimes but I can't really tell how to use it effectively.
You're talking about quantizing to a grid set to 16ths, I'm on about quantizing to a percentage of triplet time.
AK wrote:In Ableton, just quantize to a percentage of 16 triplets / 16t.
If you have some grooves which have been quantized to 16ths and then set the global quantize to triplets, ie: 16t and then choose a percentage, you'll add swing/shuffle.

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