Sequencing + max/msp

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steevio
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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by steevio » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:27 pm

JonasEdenbrandt wrote: This idea how a signal can become anything is really amazing and is actually something computers are really good at doing.
there is a difference though, in the digital world someone had to write the algorythm for one thing to become something else, in the analogue world there is unity, that thing is already something else, there is only one thing - voltage. its so simple, so beautiful.

its very hard to describe how it is different, i've been using computers since i bought one of the first personal computers the Commodore PET in 1981, which had 4kb of 8-bit RAM and a cassette tape hard drive, the changes since then have been increadible, i've always kept up with the technological changes and i'm amazed by the new technology and have it all over my house, and yet there is something about analogue synthesis which has made me abandon computers in my music, its fluid, its holistic, its alive !!
i suppose until you really get into it you cant possibly know, even when i first started with all-analogue synthesis i still didnt fully get it.

i think that what you're doing is cool, looking at analogue devices and creating them in the digital domain, its what i'd be doing if i wasnt adrift in the analogue ocean.

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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by oblioblioblio » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:43 pm

max msp and reaktor are the next best thing to a modular.

If I was to design a perfect system with Max and Reaktor, I would build it like a modular, and just use a fixed set of modules and not worry too much about the deeper layers (although certainly pay interest in them). With Max and Reaktor I spent a lot of time with the lower layers of patching, which ultimately wasn't productive creatively, and didn't allow a really fluid creative process.

I think there's a MaxMSP version of the Wiard Noisering... check that one out!

I didn't really like Max for sequencing though I have to say, the Max/control side has some of the most interesting blocks for sequencing, but only runs at 1000 samples per second or something.

Discrete voltage systems make me happier I have to say.

AK
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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by AK » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:09 pm

steevio wrote:
JonasEdenbrandt wrote: This idea how a signal can become anything is really amazing and is actually something computers are really good at doing.
there is a difference though, in the digital world someone had to write the algorythm for one thing to become something else, in the analogue world there is unity, that thing is already something else, there is only one thing - voltage. its so simple, so beautiful..
With no intention of starting a philosophical debate bro, there are many physicists who believe the universe is digital, therefore everything that exists inside of it, is digital data. Almost like a giant interactive computer simulation. That sounds bizarre but at the smallest elements of matter, things become 'fuzzy' or pixelated. Atoms are made up of of bits of information, everything is all 1's and 0's.

Must have some massive bit depth though!!! :lol:

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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by oblioblioblio » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:30 pm

I read something about magnetic tape having something like 1,000,000 times more bits of information than the highest sample rate currently available digitally, and instead of having a fixed sample rate clocking like a piston scrolling through these bits at a fixed rate, the bits have a completely random distribution within the media, so the system has a ridiculously high accuracy but also this fuzzy non linearity.

Anyways, I don't want to be a slave to anything, just want to represent the information.

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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by steevio » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:41 pm

AK wrote:
With no intention of starting a philosophical debate bro, there are many physicists who believe the universe is digital, therefore everything that exists inside of it, is digital data. Almost like a giant interactive computer simulation. That sounds bizarre but at the smallest elements of matter, things become 'fuzzy' or pixelated. Atoms are made up of of bits of information, everything is all 1's and 0's.

Must have some massive bit depth though!!! :lol:
haha yes we could go down that rabbit hole very easily, my feelings on physicists are that the more they learn the less they know, they admit it themselves. the whole concept of the big bang which has been at the centre of cosmology for a long time now is now beginning to fall apart, and they are all just guessing, because theyve come up against a brick wall.

i doubt that they will figure out anything more of any importance in my lifetime, they are coming to the boundaries of any resolution perceivable by humans.

the human mind is the new frontier for explorations of the universe i reckon.

meanwhile i chose electricity over 1's and 0's as my medium cos its sexier :D

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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by ::BLM:: » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:44 pm

the human mind is the new frontier for explorations of the universe i reckon.
+1 (*)

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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by lem » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:49 pm

Finally, a topic I know really well!!
steevio wrote:dont know if its possible, but try emulating the A155 doepfer sequencer and A154 controller which is paired with it.
I have a Z8000 and the above, and the above is in another realm altogether. better still control the A155/154 with the Z8000. i run two A155/154s from my Z8000, pure bliss.
the Z8000 isnt really a trigger sequencer, its a CV sequencer, the combination of these things gives you infinite possibilities.

yeah piano rolls are hard work compaired to analogue style sequencing.
This is basically exactly what I have made.

My Step Controller is driven by midi notes in clips. This feeds into a Counter object that outputs 8 note values between C to G. The counters direction and max/min values can be controlled by knobs that are midi mappable.
The output note values are fed into a midi rack that splits those notes C to G to separate chains with ableton Transpose plugins to control the output note. Midi mapping the chain monitor on/off acts as the gates.
Keeping these in separate racks with macros mapped to Start, End, Direction, and reset of the step controller and the CV's mapped to the macro's of the CV rack. This way you can use the same bank of knobs to control different parameters, and also cuts down on perma-mapping certain cc's and keeps things much more tidy. The only ballache is having to perma-map the gates to something.

I use my BCR2000 with the top row of led buttons showing the metronome. On a separate midi track set the input from your stepseq track POST Step Controller then output this to BCR - channel whatever. Then on the BCR set the top row of LED buttons to be C-G. Now when your sequencer controller plays C (step 1) the first button will light, but if you change the Start point to 2, then that led won't light. So it follows the behaviour of the Step controller.
Then I assign the row below the metronome to the monitor on/offs on the CV rack. So this switches the gates on and off and corresponds to the metronome. At the moment I assign the bottom row of the BCR's knobs to the CV pitches as it keeps it easy to follow. But with this setup, I never need look at the screen.

I would prefer to be able to map the Gates, Metronome and CV's to macro's via remote scripts. This way I could have page 1 of the BCR mapped to ALL step seq's and switch through them using either the bottom right 4 buttons or keys on the keyboard and the BCR LED's and values would change state as I switch between different racks. But unfortunately the custom remote scripts I am capable of only allow for 8 macro's to be output to said controller.
I know there is a way(s) to do this, within Max aswell. But there comes a point after doing this for a year you just wanna make some bloody music!

These racks and devices have pretty much 0 CPU load, so you can have as many channels as you like. The ballache is midi assigning them all.. (anyway, have to stop being bitter about that!)

Now after the CV rack and before a synth/whatever you can insert Ableton's Scaler plugin or better still a rack of them with different scales. Then assign macro 1 to step through the scales, I call this (imaginatively) the Scaler rack. I copy this same rack to every steqseq track and assign macro 1 to change scales to the same midi knob, so they all change together.
Now I can have multiple channels of step sequencing and the scaler keeps everything in key. It doesn't matter what position you have the CV knobs, its always in key.

This is what I have been using for my improvised liveset for the past year. I can't take credit for the method, its almost completely inspired by what Steevio showed me on his modular a year ago. Although all the engineering is my own. I never really understood the power of step sequencing until I met him.
It transformed production for me. I owe a lot to him.

AK
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Re: Sequencing + max/msp

Post by AK » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:28 pm

You know what? I feel I'm missing out on a big thing here, I'd love to get into sequencing this way, it just goes over my head though. The time I have for music at the moment is time I actually want to get some ideas going and not be buried in learning curves but at the same time, to get into this I need to learn it.

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