The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

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shubelo
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The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by shubelo » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:00 pm

Hey guys,
Im wondering how you use your samples when producing you hi-hat patterns. Say a 808 closed hi-hat every 1/8 beats and open hi-hat at the end of every bar.

I can never find the right closed and open hat samples that go together. I find sample packs only have one sample I like and wont have the corresponding closed or open equivalent. I have tried tune two different samples and another technique by putting an open hi-hat in a sampler and changing the AMP ENV but nothing seems to work. I hear pretty much every professional track have the same sounding hats like its the same symbol been used. How can I get it to sound like that, I am lost for ideas?
Last edited by shubelo on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

AK
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Re: The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by AK » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:28 pm

Why not try making your own hats? They are pretty easy to synthesize and you'll have full control over how they sound. Samples are fine too, one thing you can try is to just get a few open hat samples, for argument sake, lets say it's an open 808 hat, from that you can also make a closed hat with a simple ADSR envelope for example and they'll work together fine. There's literally tons of quality samples out there from various drum machines too, you're bound to find open and closed variations. Maybe develop your sample library a bit more?

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Phase Ghost
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Re: The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by Phase Ghost » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:47 pm

Go to the music store with a handheld recorder and record a open and closed hi-hat? I've done this. They will need eq'd quite a bit though. Or use a drum synth of your choosing and create a hi-hat and duplicate that hat and adjust the envelopes so one is open and one is closed.

Also, something to mention about the 808 hats in particular. They are interconnected and use a "choke" feature to get the signature 808 style of play between the two hats. So, like a real hi-hat, when you have a open hat playing and then play a closed hat, it stops or chokes the open hat. You may have been aware, but I think it's worth mentioning for people that didn't know.

shubelo
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Re: The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by shubelo » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:41 am

Phase Ghost wrote:Also, something to mention about the 808 hats in particular. They are interconnected and use a "choke" feature to get the signature 808 style of play between the two hats. So, like a real hi-hat, when you have a open hat playing and then play a closed hat, it stops or chokes the open hat. You may have been aware, but I think it's worth mentioning for people that didn't know.
Thanks mate maybe I'll give the ENV in a sampler another shot, and Keep that in mind.

Do you know how those Roland drum machines work in terms of how they get there closed and open hats, do you use an ENV on an open to make a closed or are there many of the same pitch samples with different lengths on a floppy disk for users to work with?

shubelo
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Re: The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by shubelo » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:47 am

AK wrote:Why not try making your own hats? They are pretty easy to synthesize and you'll have full control over how they sound. Samples are fine too, one thing you can try is to just get a few open hat samples, for argument sake, lets say it's an open 808 hat, from that you can also make a closed hat with a simple ADSR envelope for example and they'll work together fine. There's literally tons of quality samples out there from various drum machines too, you're bound to find open and closed variations. Maybe develop your sample library a bit more?

Hmm I don't think so, I have a fare few drum same's from different sample pack including drum machine packs and haven't really found the right thing. I have a few 808 etc machine pack that all have some great samples but the open samples a all in different tone/pitches to the closed ones.

Im going to try the sampler and ENV idea again even though I have tried it a few times maybe I can get it soon. But I it always sounds to "fake" for lack of a better work?

thanks for your opinion, you always have nice answer

lem
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Re: The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by lem » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:57 am

shubelo wrote:Hmm I don't think so, I have a fare few drum same's from different sample pack including drum machine packs and haven't really found the right thing. I have a few 808 etc machine pack that all have some great samples but the open samples a all in different tone/pitches to the closed ones.

Im going to try the sampler and ENV idea again even though I have tried it a few times maybe I can get it soon. But I it always sounds to "fake" for lack of a better work?
Are you listening to them in isolation? Like just your open and closed?
If you do this you are bound to point out every imperfection.
Are you applying any effects after the highhats? Eq, TINY bits of delay and reverb help glue grouped sounds together.

You are always going to run into these sort of problems if you pull sounds from your sample packs. I make my hi-hats out of anything I can record after doing this for so long I'm quicker at that than pissing around 'looking' for samples in a sample pack.
All the same a source sound is a source sound, learning your sampler well will help you no end with things like this. Why don't you think about the differences between a open and a closed hi-hat? Do you think you can make an open hat into a closed hat and vise versa?

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Re: The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by Phase Ghost » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:27 pm

shubelo wrote: Thanks mate maybe I'll give the ENV in a sampler another shot, and Keep that in mind.

Do you know how those Roland drum machines work in terms of how they get there closed and open hats, do you use an ENV on an open to make a closed or are there many of the same pitch samples with different lengths on a floppy disk for users to work with?
The 808 hats are made from 6 analog square waves and the 909 hats are a processed 6 bit sample. I've re-created the 909 hat, but couldn't even come close the 808 (one of the reasons I got the tip top hats808). The 808 hats are the same source for sure. That's the reason I recommended the technique I did. Working with samples will be more difficult, in my opinion, than using a drum synth. What DAW are you using? I could do this easily with Logic's Ultrabeat or Drumspillage.

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Re: The relationship between Open and Closed Hi-Hat samples

Post by AK » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:44 am

Phase Ghost wrote:
shubelo wrote: Thanks mate maybe I'll give the ENV in a sampler another shot, and Keep that in mind.

Do you know how those Roland drum machines work in terms of how they get there closed and open hats, do you use an ENV on an open to make a closed or are there many of the same pitch samples with different lengths on a floppy disk for users to work with?
The 808 hats are made from 6 analog square waves and the 909 hats are a processed 6 bit sample. I've re-created the 909 hat, but couldn't even come close the 808 (one of the reasons I got the tip top hats808). The 808 hats are the same source for sure. That's the reason I recommended the technique I did. Working with samples will be more difficult, in my opinion, than using a drum synth. What DAW are you using? I could do this easily with Logic's Ultrabeat or Drumspillage.
Fair play for even going there with that one. My self made hats are usually done on a synth with a lot of digital waveforms built in. Various semitone tunings and fine tunings coupled with a hi pass filter and ring mod create the hats with a ringing type tone and noise for the non tonal type hats. Polyphony set to 1 and envelopes to suit.

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