Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

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Hades
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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by Hades » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:46 pm

simonb wrote:
Hades wrote:
steevio wrote:men are the arseholes on this lump of rock

apart from Thatcher of course
:lol:

I thought that was really great news btw : Tatcher dead !
woohoo !
I'm sure glad I didn't live in the UK during her reign...
Yeah - lots of people saying stuff like "show a dead mother some dignity" and "don't talk ill of the dead" - well maybe if she'd showed a shred of dignity to the workers and communities whose industries she decimated with no backup plan except for sucking the wealth into the financial sector, or the sufferers of apartheid or dictatorships, or gay adolescents, or football fans killed by police action, or Northern Irish political protestors... sorry going off topic now, you get the point ;)
obviously anyone in such a high position has to make hard decisions at some point, but it's the way she made them that always blew me away.
we had our mines closed down around the same period as the ones in the UK, but we didn't condemn all the families of those workers into poverty the way Tatcher did without a blink.
I'm sure if you did a biopsy now you'd discover the woman never had a heart. :shock:

whether or not the woman was against rave culture doesn't matter to me. That doesn't put people on my shitlist.
But if you have no trouble whatsoever to make the lives of so many families a tragedy, then you're just a cnt in my book.
Margaret Tatcher, The Iron cnt ! -twisted

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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by steevio » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:22 pm

simonb wrote:
Hades wrote:
steevio wrote:men are the arseholes on this lump of rock

apart from Thatcher of course
:lol:

I thought that was really great news btw : Tatcher dead !
woohoo !
I'm sure glad I didn't live in the UK during her reign...
Yeah - lots of people saying stuff like "show a dead mother some dignity" and "don't talk ill of the dead" - well maybe if she'd showed a shred of dignity to the workers and communities whose industries she decimated with no backup plan except for sucking the wealth into the financial sector, or the sufferers of apartheid or dictatorships, or gay adolescents, or football fans killed by police action, or Northern Irish political protestors... sorry going off topic now, you get the point ;)
i come from a mining family in a North Eastern mining town which had three of the biggest coal mines in Europe, it was a town with a real sense of community and a happy place to grow up. within the space of a few short years Thatcher's policies decimated our town, turned it into a ghost town with almost the entire population of 20,000 out of work, using brutal police tactics to crush the inevitable unrest.
if that wasnt enough the same brutal fascist police tactics were used against me as a traveller and free party / festival participant and organiser, police with no identification numbers, confiscating sound systems, smashing vinyl, trashing and torching traveller's vehicles and homes,
show her some dignity my arse.....good riddance, she was an evil fascist cow.

sorry for OT rant

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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by oblioblioblio » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:16 pm

I grew up in a place created by Thatcher's vision of the self. A community built from strong individuals having been given a fake sense of community installed into their minds, but really it was not a community, it was the self given free reign whatever the cost and it was hell.

We live in a scary world and I think the only option is to find your place, find your self and your family and build build build. The scum on top is always going to be there. Maybe that's a really flippant thing to say though, as it offers no solace to any victims of crimes of the state.

Hades
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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by Hades » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:19 am

I sometimes wonder where there still is a real sense of community in our Western world.
I live in a small town, but I'm not under the impression there is much sense of community here.
I appreciate and know my neighbours, and most (with the exception of one big asshole) will help each other out when possible.
But when it comes down to it, it's all this everyone for itself thing in the end everywhere you look.
Even union people nowadays.
I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in Belgium you can't sack a union person, unless you want to pay him 5 years. (!!!!)
What's the result ? People that are afraid to lose their jobs (most of the times because they're "sick" too often, they are lazy, they don't do their work the way they should,...
in short : because it makes sense they get sacked) become union people,
and then they go on sick leave for years on end...
So everyone that still goes to work and has a problem isn't helped by their union guy because he's a big selfish idiot that sits at home being paid to do nothing.
They're all so good at knowing their rights, but they seem to forget their duties...
Unfortunately that's what the sense of community has become a lot of times... :?

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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by oblioblioblio » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:15 am

family is inbuilt.... in our genetics and in our spirit we want it so badly, we need it and we know it. I've been lucky enough to know that hand of beautiful co-operative borderless family behaviour and it's exponential... it makes you want to spread it's message.

But I also know the cruel hand of chaos that influences the behaviour of so many.

In the end it's a choice, from day to day and in every moment.

Watch out on complaining about unions, I'm familiar with that attitude from the UK. My mum is really pro Thatcher because she broke up the power of the unions. And ultimately they're there for a reason, under capitalism humans are worked till they bleed and the unions are there to say when enough is enough on behalf of the worker. I've personally been scapegoated like that in a job and it's just gossip, but it spreads quickly and really fucks with people's lives.

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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by Hades » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:46 am

oblioblioblio wrote:
Watch out on complaining about unions, I'm familiar with that attitude from the UK. My mum is really pro Thatcher because she broke up the power of the unions. And ultimately they're there for a reason, under capitalism humans are worked till they bleed and the unions are there to say when enough is enough on behalf of the worker. I've personally been scapegoated like that in a job and it's just gossip, but it spreads quickly and really fucks with people's lives.
yes, but that's exactly my point.
I happily pay for my union membership. It's a lesson my grandfather taught us when we were still very young.
He worked his ass off in a carpet factory all his life to feed his 8 children.
He said : "even if you never need it, you still have to join to support the others".
And he was damn right.

But that's exactly why I was so disgusted to see this selfish behaviour with people that are representives of the union.
I know very well you have lazy and selfish people everywhere, but by doing this, their selfishness has massive results for the people that do need their union.
I never had to, thank god, but others did, and where are they left with union people like that ?
I really believe n that system, and they completely exploit it. It's disgusting.

I had a colleague of mine who was sick 50% of the time. Always one of those things you couldn't really prove : migraine, back ache, knee trouble,...
If she was there, she wouldn't do half the work cause "she didn't speak any english".
All of a sudden, she was a candidate for the union position.
I was really puzzled by that, cause she didn't seem to be a person that cared much for others,
and asked her once about this, you know, what her plan was, she didn't know anything decent to say,
not even half of the complaints everyone who's there on a regular basis had.
Anyway, the cleaning lady told me that 5 year rule, with a mysterious smile on her face,
and sure enough, the woman got elected because she was at that time the only candidate for that union (you have 2 or 3 different ones here),
and bam, after 2 weeks, she was gone on sick leave.
She never came back in 5 years time. Not once !
(but meanwhile you could spot her from time to time, happily shopping away in town)
She never did anything union wise, not even attended a single meeting.
And what did she do after her union time was over ?
She put herself up for election again ! :shock: :shock:
We had to inform all the new people here at work, you know, like "whatever you do, do NOT vote on her, please",
because they simply didn't know who that was since she hadn't shown up for work in 5 years,
and there's always a certain percentage of people that vote on somebody without thinking about it very much.
Thank god there were other candidates so she didn't get re-elected.

I mean, the complete arrogance of exploiting the system in such a way,
not even raising the slightest benefit of a doubt,
and then having the balls to put yourself up for re-election ! :shock:

And that's just one example, I could give more.
And yes, of course, what is the alternative, no unions ? Of course not, I know that.
I'm just saying, there should be some kind of way to keep the parasites out of such a positive thing like the union (at least in theory).

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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by tone-def » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:59 am

oblioblioblio wrote:are you sure Tony?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/-Um04WlHDNU?ve ... n_US&rel=0[/youtube]
thanks for this. :lol:

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Re: Then end of 2012 - What have you learned?

Post by steevio » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:44 pm

both my grandfathers were union men, and they were good men, there's nothing inherently wrong with unions, sweeping generalisations about such things based on individual cases is a bit dangerous, but like in any situation there are parasites, you only have to look at the entire capitalist system to see a great big fucking pyramid of parasites.

but maybe unions were a product of their time, as soon as we move away from capitalism, greed, and consumerism and move towards co-creation, co-operation, and empathy, there will be no need for unions. Its the only way forward for the human race, capitalism and communism were 20th century experiments that didnt work and fucked up our planet, it wasnt all bad, it gave us the 909 ;) , but its time to move on, we have to evolve.
just look at the sh!t going on in the world right now, most of it is due to archaic political and religious philosophies still lingering well past their sell-by date, infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible, its time for sustainability and the fresh political ideas that support it.

rant v2 over :D

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