starting..

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Hades
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Re: starting..

Post by Hades » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:41 am

try focusing on getting the seperate pieces of your track good, and not too much yet at how to make an entire track.
When you get better at getting your loops, sounds, small percussive elements, beats,... right, it will get much easier when you start throwing them together to create an entire track.
Some techno tracks aren't a lot more than 4 or 5 elements that create this perfect groove, and it still works great.
MagpieIndustries wrote:get a modular synth and a lot of patch cables. randomly move them around. post on forums trying to sound clever.
what, guys, didn't this guy hit the nail on the head as well ?? :lol: ;)

lem
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Re: starting..

Post by lem » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:00 am

Hades wrote:try focusing on getting the seperate pieces of your track good, and not too much yet at how to make an entire track.
When you get better at getting your loops, sounds, small percussive elements, beats,... right, it will get much easier when you start throwing them together to create an entire track.
Is this good advice? I mean, this is how I started.
Yes your production gets better, but its no good learning how to produce great loops and not knowing how to make it a great tune. I was stuck for ages with loops that I couldn't make into a track..

I don't know though.. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not sure I would change the way I have learnt, but in some ways I wouldn't advise anyone to do things the way I did.

I found the way to get better at certain 'parts' of a track was to make sure to start with what you find most difficult. So if you want to improve hi-hat technique, start with the hi-hats.
I spent about 2 years just making kickdrums. Not that it was a complete waste of time, I happen to like my kickdrums atm. But during that time I didn't really learn a lot other than that. Certainly not very much about techno.

lem
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Re: starting..

Post by lem » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:05 am

Hades wrote:
MagpieIndustries wrote:get a modular synth and a lot of patch cables. randomly move them around. post on forums trying to sound clever.
what, guys, didn't this guy hit the nail on the head as well ?? :lol: ;)
I think we are all just ignoring him. :-flower

Hades
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Re: starting..

Post by Hades » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:04 am

lem wrote:
Hades wrote:try focusing on getting the seperate pieces of your track good, and not too much yet at how to make an entire track.
When you get better at getting your loops, sounds, small percussive elements, beats,... right, it will get much easier when you start throwing them together to create an entire track.
Is this good advice? I mean, this is how I started.
Yes your production gets better, but its no good learning how to produce great loops and not knowing how to make it a great tune. I was stuck for ages with loops that I couldn't make into a track..

I don't know though.. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not sure I would change the way I have learnt, but in some ways I wouldn't advise anyone to do things the way I did.

I found the way to get better at certain 'parts' of a track was to make sure to start with what you find most difficult. So if you want to improve hi-hat technique, start with the hi-hats.
I spent about 2 years just making kickdrums. Not that it was a complete waste of time, I happen to like my kickdrums atm. But during that time I didn't really learn a lot other than that. Certainly not very much about techno.
thank you for your kind words :lol: ;)
Mind you I did say more than just the word "loops" (see above).

So if the OP is the kind of person that gets stuck in making loops and nothing else, then my advice might suck.
But if he doesn't even have the proper building blocks, then it's rather difficult to start building up a whole track.

You know, when you listen to modern day techno, there's a lot of these over-produced arrangements going on,
just because the tools we have today are so much more advanced, so we have lots more options.
In the early days, they didn't have the options to make it so much "arranged", so it was automatically a lot more loop-based,
and hell, when I listen back to some of those albums, I find their raw material is a lot better than the material some people use nowadays.
I mean, take something like Birmingham techno. Most of it is highly loop-based.
Take almost any Surgeon track, it's all hyperactive loops on steroids, raw as fck, but it works !

And the people who make techno with a modular ? They don't have so many advanced options like the people who use a software DAW to do the automation and especially arrangement for them. And even if they have a huge modular, and know it inside out, they still only have 2 hands to control it...

Someone like Jeff Mills deliberately choses not to use a computer in his production nor in his DJ'ing, just because he wants to push his own skills to the limit, and avoid having a computer take over things from him.
If you listen to his DJ'ing sets, you can hear the beatmatching ain't as perfect as it could be, but hell, he's a lot more skilled than all those beatport modern day guys. He prefers to allow mistakes in, that's what he believes in.

Anyway, all I'm saying is : those people automatically are more drawn into getting their loops right. And it works for them !
I hear you perfectly when you say it's easy to get stuck into only making loops and noting else, but if the OP experiences that, then hell, he should look for a solution to this, or simply start building tracks in a different way instead of focusing on loops.
He doesn't have to focus on loops, or sounds or beats or whatever, if it doesn't work for him, then it's no point doing it.
If playing golf in a straw skirt every 3rd sunday of the month in a leap-year makes him a very active producer, then by all means, he should do this. :-flower

The thing is, on these fora we all tend to give advice on what we feel works best for us (or in some rare ocassion for what works best for a friend we know well because we've seen it from close by, but in 95% of the cases we always tend to tell someone advice in the line of what works best for us).
Here you are saying : don't focus on loops, you'll get stuck forever in making loops only. This is because you had such a moment.
Here I am saying : hell man, you know how much great techno is build by just a few perfect loops ? This is because I know my end results in a track are a lot better when I focus on getting better loops (and sounds, grooves, beats,... whatever) than if I focus on getting a whole track together from the start.

anyways, just my 2 cts ;)

All this, it's all just advice from some guy on the net.
Maybe it works for you, maybe it don't.
It's as simple as that ! ;)

Hades
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Re: starting..

Post by Hades » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:12 am

lem wrote:
Hades wrote:
MagpieIndustries wrote:get a modular synth and a lot of patch cables. randomly move them around. post on forums trying to sound clever.
what, guys, didn't this guy hit the nail on the head as well ?? :lol: ;)
I think we are all just ignoring him. :-flower
obviously it's just a joke,
but there's also such a subtle painful tiny little bit of underlying truth in there, as is often the case with good humour. -twisted

(and I think I deserve a big kick in the butt to mention modular in my previous post ! (even though I have no modular whatsoever in my studio and feel completely neutral about the subject :P ))

hmm... maybe I should stay off the red bull for a few hours...

lem
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Re: starting..

Post by lem » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:15 am

Hades wrote: obviously it's just a joke,
No no, I think he actually hates modular. "Damn those cables!"
Hades wrote: hmm... maybe I should stay off the red bull for a few hours...
:lol:

styyn
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Re: starting..

Post by styyn » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:21 pm

don't know if you produce in ableton, but if you do, get the minus ableton packs. some are really advanced (the jpls pack f.e), but i would suggest the barem pack, really basic and you get the idea of the parts that are common in techno music. the barem pack is really stripped down and easy to understand. try messing around with the parts and apply effects to channels, see what they do to the sound.
808

mr lee
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Re: starting..

Post by mr lee » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:45 pm

I think something people tend to get hung up on is this idea that your initial loops and sounds need to sound perfect. When creating your first percussion, bass, lead, etc.. be open minded. I like to over create elements at this stage. Get several different percussion patterns and loops going until you are moderately satisfied. Then start experimenting with these different elements (muting, solo, relooping, deleting, adding) until you start finding the groove of the track. Once you have the groove it's all about building upon that and bringing it to life... aka sequencing.

Personally, I like to go through several iterations of sequencing with lots of bouncing down, adding FX, etc. During this phase it's critical to find those elements that stick out and don't work and DELETE them. Don't be afraid to replace a specific sound if it's not working. Remember, it's all about enhancing that initial groove.

Also, keep it simple stupid. A lot of new producers try and make super complicated patterns and super "edgy" stuff without following the basic rules. Once you know the rules you can break them. My advice is to make several very simple tracks. Go through the motions of making a tune without stressing if it's the "coolest track on earth". Live with the fact that every track isn't going to be a hit. Every track won't be released. And once you fine tune your skills, you'll be able to push your own limitations and boundaries.

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